January 20, 2002
(Brent) OK, I now call the meeting to order
(Brent) Item 1 Minutes of last meeting...comments?
(Roger) None here.
(Jurian) none here
(Nancy) None here.
(Jan) None here
(Brent) OK Item 2 UNIX Servers...Status, Jurian?
(Jurian) The linux machines are both online, connected via the DSL router. At the moment, only the first one is used, haven't had time yet to set up the second one, apart from the basic configuration.
(Jurian) So far, e-mail services work ok, and are usable for both troubled-times.org and troubled-times.com. All board members should have a troubled-times.org e-mail address.
(Jurian) I have sent out an e-mail to all current board members, but not all have replied, I think. If you haven't had an email about tt.org email addy's, please let me know so we can get it set up.
(Jurian) All board members can choose to either have their tt.org mail forwarded to another address, or to read it using webmail.
(Jurian) The webmail runs on the linux machines as well, on the webserver, just like the troubled-times.org and .com webpages.
(Jurian) For now, the DSL line is OK, but if we want to do more with the servers, we definately need a faster connection.
(Jurian) That's about it :-)
(Jurian) Any questions?
(Nancy) I see flickering of the router, almost always, so it IS being used.
(Jurian) Yeah, sometimes it is being over-used, almost unreachable
(Nancy) I moved big graphics and seldom used pages to this server, to east on the MB usage I'm paying for a PA Online this year.
(Brent) Shirley: I haven't received an email Jurian.
(Jan) Is Zetatalk.com on the servers yet, or is it only Troubled-Times.org/com?
(Jurian) Only troubled-times.org/com
(Jurian) I'll contact shirley about it
(Nancy) Did you register troubled-times.org and .com on the Search Engine, Jurian?
(Jurian) Brent: only troubled-times.org/com
(Brent) Sorry, got bumped
(Nancy) Jan, there is a mirror site there, zetatalk2.com, but I've not yet set this up in the domain name server DNS so no one knows about it yet. Soon. The data is there, etc.
(Jan) Given the comment about the line, will we have to upgrade before zetatalk.com is moved there?
(Nancy) Jan, the ALPHA site will not be moved there.
(Nancy) I am retaining this for insurance as this site has been sable and is well run.
(Nancy) ZetaTalk.com is at PA Online, ZetaTalk2.com will be on the Unix servers, ZetaTalk3.com is in Slovenia.
(Nancy) All have Troubled Times and the nonprofit hosted there, so there are 3 sites for each data pool.
(Nancy) The structure of each is similar, referencing other directories and the like.
(Nancy) ZT.com offers speed and safety. ZT2.com and the unix servers offer scripts and other facilities that we can't get elsewhere.
(Nancy) ZT3.com offers good service to Europe when the satellites start to fail, etc.
(Jurian) Exactly :-)
(Nancy) For instance, on the UNIX servers, we could collect data from folks, web based forms and scripts, not done elsewhere.
(Jurian) Uh, most internet traffic goes over landlines, not sattelite :-)
(Nancy) OK, but ZT3 offer better service to Europe, right?
(Nancy) In either case.
(Jurian) Yeah :)
(Jurian) Having mirrors is always a good thing
(Jan) Hey - what's happening? Everybody all went quiet, or did I drop out??
(Nancy) We can upgrade the UNIX servers to T1 easily, with this setup, just a call to Century Tel, etc.
(Nancy) So the work is behind us, basically, always a good position to be in.
(Jurian) Cost is the biggest issue, of course :-)
(Nancy) $875/mo and same for installation, I think, last time I looked.
(Nancy) I think time is just as important, and we've put that behind us, the time involved for setup and debugging.
(Gerard) About the costs
(Brent) That's what I thought... maybe soon.
(Brent) Great report, and nice work Nancy and Jurian. Any more questions or comments?
(Jan) Folks, I'll be switching back to Win2K - seems like mIRC is having trouble on XP. Back in a few minutes. Sorry!
(Brent) OK, Item 3 booklet costs, and discussion.
(Mary) Brent, your quote from Kinko, is that for 100 books?
(Roger) I think that was Toni's quote.
(Brent) Yes, and both, roger.... seems Kinkos gave us the same quote!
(Mary) Opps. Sorry. Does anyone know how many books that was for? and did you all get the e-mail I sent?
(Mary) Regarding the book costs.....
(Roger) You won't believe this, but I got a quote from Kinkos here in ... for much less than that.
(Roger) I used the same specs as Toni posted and they quote $277.73 for 100 books.
(Roger) That includes a modest discount of $60.
(Nancy) Roger, you're out in the boonies :-)
(Mary) You must realize that Kinko's will do a much more professional job than I can. And at $2.77 a book is at about the same cost.
(Nancy) Cost of doing business in one state or another, labor costs, etc., may varry. New York taxes a lot.
(Roger) There may be a better discount for non-profit status, but they need to check with the GM to find out.
(Mary) If someone becomes responsible for the printing they will also need to do the mailing.
(Brent) As long as Mary is not under too much pressure, and is comfortable with the project, I think we can leave it as is.
(Brent) The quotes are for "mass demand" in the future if needed, agreed?
(Mary) No pressure yet. But I had 5 requests in 2 days and I think that is going to escalate.
(Nancy) Indeed, but having Plan B ready is a good thing too. Who know what the morrow will bring!
(Roger) It is good to know that we can fire off a hundred copies or so if Mary becomes swamped for just a few cents more!
(Mary) I agree. We just need to decide who is going to get it done (:
(Roger) There are two members in this area, including myself.
(Nancy) Are you volunteering, Roger?
(Roger) I'm sure that in an pinch, we can fill in.
(Mary) Good. BTW, shipping to Australia is up to 6.50 per book.
(Mary) Media rate.
(Brent) Jan, we are in the middle of Item 3 :-)
(Roger) I probably shouldn't volunteer Stan...
(Nancy) Still, a good price for the content, etc.
(Mary) I have no problem with the $. Most ship for 1.34 and 2.10 canada.
(Gerard) That's not that expensive I think
(Mary) Nope. I will be sending one out to Sweden and it will be interesting to see what the rate is.
(Mary) Anyone have any questions?
(Brent) Great, good to have a backup plan in any case.....
(Jan) Did you discuss the quotes for printing while I was gone, or is that next?
(Brent) Been there Jan, Toni' and mine were identical, Roger's much lower.
(Jan) Mary, I was worried about your 3 hours for 5 copies.
(Jan) Did you propose anything for printing services?
(Mary) Yea. Sounds like a lot but I can only feed 20 pages at a time into the copier.
(Mary) It's like watching a pot stew. (:
(Brent) I think Mary enjoys producing the booklet.
(Mary) Gives some satisfaction. yes.
(Jan) To me it sounds like we are overutilizing Mary's time, and that we will get into trouble if and when requests increase.
(Mary) No trouble. We will just have to put plan B into effect.
(Roger) And plan B will give us here something to do on rainy days!
(Nancy) And meanwhile, maybe we can create a table of options, to identify the best place for Plan B?
(Nancy) Cost vs speed vs volunteer help offered (to go to Kiko's), etc.
(Brent) OK, Item 4 Progress of Short wave radio Project. Everyone print out a copy of Shirley's report?
(Gerard) I didn't print it out
(Brent) For shirley
(Nancy) I have a question for both Jan and Shirley. Are you two positioned, along with others in the tt-radio, to uptick for lots of networking if the nonprofit gets a LOT of attention this year, re this?
(Nancy) I'm asking as I've gotten a serious inquiry re my script on Passages.
(Roger) Any estimate of when Falk will be back to set up packets?
(Jan) The comment abour repeaters refers to VHF, which is most frquently used due to capacity, It is also possible to run packet on HF without repeaters, but capacity is low, between 300 & 1200 baud.
(Nancy) You two would be the leadership, my take ...
(Jan) Nancy, I'm unfortunately NOT positioned to any uptke yet, as I still lack my international tower & antennas.
(Nancy) If there is a lot of interest, then guiding folks to connect to existing networks where packet is practiced?
(Jan) DUe to my other comittments, I'm very seldom at my site where I have my radio etc. I hope this will change this spring/summer, but no guarantees unfortunately
(Nancy) Plan A we'er holding sessions and teaching, Plan B we point to existing sessions and practice, etc.
(Brent) Shirley says: I've been concentrating on putting packet on 2meter/450 radio, just because it's so much clearer-less noise factor. however, although I haven't gone into HF packet, i will now concentrate on doing that.
(Nancy) What would you DO if 1,000 folks started asking for practice sessions, for instance?
(Nancy) Jan, don't I know about those other committments, like working for bread :-).
(Jan) Nancy, that would never happen, The route there is long, getting all the licenses and stuff. We will have to concentrate on existing ham operators only
(Nancy) Do we have a list of that, groups and meetings and call ID and the like? Are we ready to escalate, if need be?
(Nancy) Perhaps Shirley would have the time, if you don't Jan, as she's very good at sorting the meat out from the soup.
(Jan) Nancy, this is something we have to organize later this year. My site is fully outfitted with PCs and radio (but no tower), I only need to add radio modems (and competence, experience, practice etc.) to start hosting HF packet.
(Brent) Shirley says: it would be possabe to set up a net if anybody wanted to practice. this could either be by voice or packet, once i get the hang of packet.
(Nancy) :-) Just trying to get everyone thinking about a rapid uptick and Plan A, B, as this may be a busy year!
(Brent) Very true, and I'm not even sure how active tt-radio has been, as I'm not a member.
(Jan) I've been disappointed about the lack of development on the radio project on my side. Unfortunately, it's still going to take some time before we're there.
(Brent) Shirley says: if you look at my report, you will see that I have steered my local club in the direction of teaching net management. this is all part of it.
(Jan) Brent, TT Radio is almost dead, no traffic. Ron's original idea about holding classes etc. would have worked with him on board, seasened as he was within the field
(Nancy) Hurrah for Shirley and Jan both!
(Mary) Yes, hurrah!!!!! Thank you both.
(Nancy) It took a long time to get the servers online, we started buiding them over a year ago, then they were delivered and just SAT, etc.
(Nancy) Now we're positioned to move to a T1 quickly. So we get there ...
(Brent) Sorry to hear about tt-radio....now it looks like Jan and Shirley are it, unless others get their international licenses.
(Jan) Shirley's efforts are well appreciated, and she will be my main contact once I get my tower etc. In the meantime, there's no hurrah for my lack of development in this area :-( Sorry
(Mary) Jan, you HAVE to eat. No apolgies.
(Jan) Clipper also has his license. My take is that we will need to involve existing Ham operators, as soon as they start understanding what's going to happen
(Nancy) I think this will happen big time, yes.
(Nancy) But your leadership will be key, to explain the situation, etc.
(Jan) Mary, not apologies, but frustrations for lack of results
(Nancy) And Shirley has that LOVELY British accent, a delight to talk to!
(Jan) Nancy, I will position for that.
(Brent) Any more questions or comments?
(Brent) OK, then on to item 5 4QTreport 2001, Nancy?
(Nancy) I tried to put the gist on the agenda, but will recap.
(Nancy) Our obligations to report to the IRS will be slight this year, as we did not take in $25,000 or more so only a letter to them saying to, and a 1099 to Shirley for her award, is required.
(Nancy) Wegner LLP is swamped at this time of year, so I told them no rush on the 4Q statements, as I can recap.
(Nancy) We only took in $5,740 last year, less than expenses of $9,252.
(Jurian) Sorry, had an unexpected visitor, did I miss anything important? :/
(Mary) Any idea of what can be expected in donations this year?
(Nancy) We are currently at $5,381 year end, but this does not reflect $2,000 in a recent donation.
(Nancy) I've at times talked to Brent about what I call a bare-bones-budget, what is needed to sustain operations.
(Brent) Jurian: review of item 5 :-)
(Jurian) ah, OK :-)
(Nancy) We HAVE this, as operations (accounts approved by the Board) will be $5,970 in 2002.
(Nancy) Many of these accounts don't get tapped, or certainly used fully.
(Nancy) Also, this is assuming NO donations this year, and this of course won't be the case, may be quite the opposite.
(Nancy) Questions? End of report.
(Mary) Repeat. Any idea of what can be expected in donations this year?
(Nancy) Mary, earlier in 2001, I heard from the Jula Dula Foundation that we may in fact get funds from them, again.
(Nancy) This was discussed, at one time, as $50,000.
(Nancy) Also, Knowledge Systems is giving us several thousands a year, in small donations that add up.
(Nancy) There is just no way of telling.
(Nancy) This is why we must function with Plan A, B .. Z, etc.
(Brent) And, it is godd that we have a "barebones" figure in place, so we know minum operating costs.
(Jan) Nancy et al, it seems we are currently on Plan C or semthing with respect to the grand plans once made for projects
atc. at the TT HQ. As things stand, the current main mission for TT is to get the word out; how to make it through, In this respect, the
booklet & the servers are the most important projects.
(Nancy) What is we get hundreds of thousands? What if we get nada?
(Nancy) Got to be perpared, as we don't call the shots.
(Nancy) Jan, I agree.
(Nancy) Booklet, servers, tt-radio is also very important.
(Jan) If funds start pouring in, we may have to rethink. Greatest problem is that time is short, so we cannot develop any new technologies etc.
(Nancy) We are setting an example, in growing seed, but our efforts are NOT going to feed the world.
(Nancy) We are likewise trying to experiment, in the lab, with what a family can do without shopping :-). That's a later agenda item, I'll wait!
(Jan) If we all of a sudden got large funds in, I think we should rent a place for Shirley where she could get a real international antenna up, and maybe even the TT could fund my tower(s)
(Nancy) Well, I also think we should be perpared to give interviews! This may happen? Who's good in front of a camera? (Not me, I'm too busy!)
(Mary) Yeah right! You will just have to get unbusy.
(Jurian) Not me, I shit my pants if I SEE a camera :p
(Nancy) Feed her intraveniously, chain her to the chair, etc. :-)
(Jan) Nancy, you are the prime person, so you will have to be the one in front of the camera.
(Nancy) The obvious choice is Brent.
(Brent) Nancy, our chained talkinhead! :-)
(Nancy) Roger would do well, too.
(Gerard) Just don't think about the camera I guess :P
(Nancy) Shirley could give phone interviews, and would be GREAT.
(Jan) Given the right channel (e.g. BBC instead of the local Swedish or Norwegian channels) I could go public as well.
(Nancy) Jan has a very professional appearance, big time!
(Roger) I don't have a good camera presence.
(Nancy) Roger, just go for a hair cut.
(Roger) Been there, done that.
(Brent) I suppose I could help out, just no intravenous feeding!
(Jan) Nancy, I believe my current mission requires me still to be "under cover". Wouldn't want to blow that yet?
(Nancy) No, not yet :-)
(Brent) I've been getting a lot of queries from the nonprofit addy.
(Nancy) At some point, it won't matter. You will look wise for having seen it coming!
(Nancy) Brent, my Safe Locations questions just skyrocketed.
(Jan) For radio, Shirley is GREAT! Brent, would it impact you and your work in any way to be publicly known as a TT
(Mary) Hey people. Time to move on (:
(Brent) Interesting...wonder why? (safe locations)
(Gerard) on the mainpage also now .. that page ... that might be one of the reasons
(Brent) Jan: probably ( work for a wealthy STS) but won't matter soon. :)
(Nancy) I second Mary's motion to move on ..
(Jan) You are right, Mary. I think however this discussion reflects tha fact that this will be out LAST full year in operation, and
that we can expect massive changes and uptick in activities this year.
(Nancy) Well, it was a suggestion, not a motion.
(Brent) OK, item 6 east coast seed team report...no barry.
(Brent) Roger, can you fill in?
(Roger) Hmm, well I guess.
(Roger) The last I read, Toni's seed stock was in transit to Barry. I seem to remember he had received some of it, but beyond that I am not sure.
(Nancy) Toni likewise sent me a list of her growers, for my files.
(Nancy) I think the Seed TEAM, this year, should perpare to disbuse seeds, a few plans A,B,C, etc.
(Brent) Yes, I was informed that Barry received the stock. I was really hopeing that he would be here to review with us.
(Nancy) We should, my thinking, prepare to put community packets together, and send to good candidates.
(Nancy) Mary, I do.
(Roger) I agree. We need to decide on quantities, etc. and then pre-assemble as much as possible.
(Nancy) I know a package to someone who cannot GET nonhybrid seeds is treated as a treasure, but most gardeners are already doing this, etc.
(Nancy) Perhaps, even, to send OUT to our growers, who have DELIVERED.
(Nancy) That's not a decision for this meeting, just brainstorming, etc.
(Brent) This is a good idea (seed packets), has the seed team group thought about this project?
(Nancy) Roger and I have talked about this, now and then ...
(Brent) Shirley says: she is told no seed can be sent across the border to canada without "official approval", Is this true?
(Nancy) I think countries worry about this, yes, but beans and corn? Humm.
(Roger) Very likely. Some areas of the US are automatically irradiating the mail. Seeds won't survive this.
(Nancy) I know there was a Canadian grower who offered to supply other Canadians, but did not return seed to the US.
(Jan) Just a quick recap: The reason we are growing seeds is that commercial seeds cannot be used for more than one season, is that right?
(Nancy) Jan, nonhybrid seed.
(Roger) Not all commercial, just hybrid seed.
(Jan) Does anyone know if we have the same problems in Europe? I believe we can get good seed in the stores here still.
(Nancy) Mail may be irradiated, but other shippers perhaps not.
(Nancy) I know the Arc won't ship to the UK.
(Nancy) Maybe can't
(Roger) Not all mail is irradiated, just some distribution centers (problem areas likely D.C.).
(Nancy) Maybe Roger can travel around the US, like Jonny Appleseed, and deliver. Just joking around, but maybe not :-)
(Brent) Roger appleseed....hehehehe
(Nancy) Roger Buckwheatseed.
(Brent) Bucky! :-)
(Jan) Jurian & Gerard, do any of you have any idea whether we would need any of the seed in Europe?
(Roger) I think it is still posible to send 'gifts' to friends in foriegn countries. It is not always necessary to disclose the contents of the 'gift.'
(Jurian) No idea if we can get non-hybrid seeds here
(Nancy) Indeed, travelers carry all manner of things, too.
(Brent) Shirley says: buckrogers...:-)
(Jurian) Gerard and me are moving to ... in a few months, we should see if we can get non-hybrid seeds then, if so, I suppose other people can, as well
(Nancy) In the end, what GROWS in those countries is what will do best! Hybrid seeds are somewhat the exception, not the norm, worldwide.
(Brent) Future agenda item: discussion of stuffing personal seed packets/volunteers.
(Nancy) Brent :-)
(Brent) Shirley says: she will find out about non-hybrid seed situation in Canada.
(Nancy) Perhaps it's just some seed they object to, etc.
(Jan) Brent, with the new security procedures at US airports, I assume that will be by road and domestic US only?
(Nancy) It may be that the hybrid companies are fussing, wanting their royalties ensured, etc.
(Brent) Jan; probably alternate mailing sources - none irrediated
(Nancy) Brent, I agree.
(Brent) OK, shall we move onto item 7 - Hydroponics project?
(Nancy) Yes ...
(Nancy) I have a long running cycle going now, the goal of which is to totally switch to worm bed nutrient solutions and growing to seed, etc.
(Nancy) This is also to be used as a control against what I HOPE will manifest next year - carbon arc lamps.
(Nancy) The bottom line goal of this lab is to practice and debug what the common man can do in his basement, with little forwarning and NO abillity to shop after the shift.
(Nancy) For instance, rather than rockwool for the pots, I use plastic screen squares which work in fact BETTER and can be reused.
(Nancy) Plastic screen is on windows and everywwhere.
(Nancy) Where last fall we determined that worm bed solution grows as well as the commercial hydroponic solution, the leaves were sometimes yellowish, had that tint.
(Nancy) Not unhealthy, just not a DARK green.
(Nancy) This time around, since I had fed the beds a lot of manure of various kinds (dog, rabbit, cow) the drainage was rich.
(Nancy) The pH went low, to 5.5, acid, and this cased the new seedlings to just die and some seeds not sprout at all.
(Nancy) I balanced this with water put into ashes, an easy thing to do, and resused the ashes for several gallons of this.
(Nancy) Soak, siphon off, soak, siphon off, etc. so that a gallon of ashes make 10 gallons of water, added to the 80 gallon hydro tank.
(Nancy) The leaves are not dark green! And all seedlings (replanted some) doing well, etc.
(Nancy) The biggest problem I have now is that buckwheat, for instance, which loves hydroponics, will not set seed.
(Nancy) Needs a pollinator, and I tried by hand without success! Bees, where ARE you!
(Nancy) We also have chickens, which produce 2.71 more eggs under the Halide than the incandescant lights, and I expect even more under carbon arc.
(Nancy) Also using them as a biological control, to see if carbon arc affects them.
(Nancy) The carbon arc would be filtered/shielded, so UV does not damage, but ...
(Nancy) The fish tanks are not in operation as I could not get a SMALL quantity of fish, $300 minimum for several times too many for the tanks.
(Nancy) But the setup is clean and could quickly be enlisted.
(Nancy) End of report.
(Roger) Wow. Very innovative solution to the acid problem! A good bit of work Nancy!
(Mary) Well, you are just a busy little bee! I am so impressed!
(Nancy) The pumps and lights are still not something the common man would have, but manual soaking and gravity draining works.
(Jan) Very good Nancy! I'll need a few of you to take care of the food supplies in my post-PS site... :-)
(Nancy) Also, if carbon arc pans out, then the lightbuillb thing is solved.
(Brent) Yes, great report...how do you shield th UV from the carbon arch, Nancy?
(Nancy) This leaves power, and batteries, etc, as the open end.
(Nancy) Brent, I think a plastic sheild might do it!
(Nancy) Glass also protects, as you don't get a tan or burn very readily while in the car behind a window.
(Brent) UV coated plastic, like sunglasses?
(Roger) The composition of the plastic or glass will matter.
(Jan) One thing I noticed when I inspected the setup last year was that it is all AC, grid dependent. Disregarding the windmill charging batteries, could the setup be switced to battery DC operation?
(Roger) Exactly, Brent.
(Nancy) Jan, whatever a family is using, they would NOT expect to be using Halide or the like.
(Jan) Nancy, what's Halide?
(Nancy) If I arrive at a recipe of stuff to use, that WORKS, that an isolated family could use if they had the power to light carbon arc, then we've done something ...
(Nancy) Carbon arc tips can be made from charcoal, etc.
(Nancy) Also, the manure I used for the worm beds, this could be more than dog poop, if you catch my drift.
(Nancy) What to do with the sewage, etc.
(Nancy) The available Nitrogen in this solution is always SKY high.
(Brent) Yes, composting toilets would be handy. :)
(Nancy) The lights we're using are Halide, not incandescent, etc.
(Nancy) Also, forgot to mention, I have some strawberry plants in pots, they would not transplant well to hydro, and water them with the worm water. They are happy, so far.
(Nancy) Also, trying to Gypsy Onions that Toni gave to me, and they are doing well. They are not biennial, easy to propagate.
(Brent) interesting, you'd think strawberries would do well in hydro.
(Nancy) Well, I was trying to wash the soil off and put them in pots. I plan to put the little plantletts they produce in hydro, THEN cut the cord to the mother plant later.
(Brent) I see, good plan...let the runner feed from "mom" for awhile, the cut the cord.
(Nancy) Going by the seat of my pants here. I KNOW they are reported to do well in hydro. The lettuce is going wild, and wanting to set seed now.
(Roger) Sorry, had a peer connection reset.
(Brent) No problem Roger!
(Brent) OK, any more comments?
(Jurian) None here
(Gerard) none here
(Nancy) I move we adjourn.
(Jan) No comments - sounds good!
(Roger) I second the motion.
(Brent) Motion carried, meeting adjourned!