March 24, 2002
(Brent) OK, got Helena back... Lets call the meeting to order!
(Brent) Item 1 Minutes of last meeting....comments?
(Jurian) none here
(Gerard) none here
(Mary) none here
(Jan) No comments
(Stan) none for me either
(Brent) OK, they are ratified as correct.
(Brent) Item 2 Annual Report 2001. Has everyone reviewed, and are there any comments?
(Jan) Looks good. The initial paragraph may need some formatting
(Brent) Where, Jan?
(Jan) I have not yet verified the Balance Sheet and Profit & Loss (as the IA), but it seems to be in full compliance with all receipts and bank statements. A format IA statement will be prepared for the next meeting.
(Brent) Very good, jan, thanks.
(Jan) Brent, I think the list of achievements (the paragraph before the Booklet) may be formatted for readibility, that's all
(Jan) "a format statement" should of course read "a formal statement"
(Brent) Good catch, and I agree about the formatting of the achievements list.
(Brent) Other comments?
(Roger) none here
(Stan) no comments
(Jan) As an additional comment, last time I visited Nancy, I did not see the labs in the basement due to Max, but she brought me pictures that I took with me. They did not carry a date, but some pictures included Max and by his size, I can verify that they were taken just before I met with Nancy.
(Jan) No further comments
(Jurian) None here
(Mary) I move that we accept the Annual report as submitted.
(Jan) Mary, before we so that, should it not be accompanied with the IA statement? This was for discussion, not approval, I think
(Brent) True, Jan, you will have the IA Statement next meeting?
(Mary) Certainly, I withdraw the motion until further discussion.
(Jan) Brent, yes I will.
(Brent) Shirley says: also the suggested formatting changes can be made by next meeting.
(Mary) Do we need a motion? Jan?
(Brent) Mary: no, since this if only for discussion at this meeting.
(Brent) Next meeting, we will move to approve.
(Jan) I don't think we need a motion, but that the minutes show that the proposed annual report was discussed, and only minor comments received. Next meeting should have the formal acceptance and vote
(Brent) Very well, shall we move on?
(Jan) Go ahead...
(Brent) Item 3 UNIX & SUN Servers....Jurian?
(Jurian) There is nothing new to report regarding the current servers. As for the newly donated sun server, still awaiting delivery, so not much to report there either.
(Mary) Is the donor paying for shipping costs?
(Brent) Hmm.....Are we sure the donated server is on it's way?
(Jurian) yes, it is
(Jan) Jurian, could you please inform as to the planned usage of the current ISP (hosting ZT & TT), the 2 servers in Nancy's house and the new Sun server?
(Jan) Which server will host what?
(Jurian) The guy has contacted the shipping company to figure out where the machine is, as it should've been delivered already
(Jurian) The new server should host mailing lists, as it'll have nice fast bandwidth
(Jurian) The current servers are hosting troubled-times.com and .org
(Jurian) Altho those are still on the zetatalk server because the DSL line at nancy's house is already 95% in use most of the time
(Jurian) And I think nancy prefers to keep tt on that server, for some reason
(Jurian) Altho I would like to state that that is a very bad idea, in my opinion
(Mary) Please explain.
(Jurian) Because that server runs windows NT, and is very very badly configured
(Jan) I have noted that ZetaTalk still points to TT on the same server. I would have hoped that could change, but you say the DSL line does not have the necessary capasity for that?
(Jurian) Lets just say, a simple script lets you get administrative permissions on the machine, remotely
(Mary) Doesn't Nancy know how to fix it? If it can be fixed.
(Jurian) Jan: well, it does, but it won't be as fast
(Jurian) Mary: its not for Nancy to fix, it is the hosting company's problem
(Jurian) All nancy could do is complain to them
(Jan) Jurian, will the Sun server be able to act as a mirror for TT?
(Jurian) It will be able to act as primary site as well, if we decide to make it so
(Mary) Is Nancy against this?
(Brent) Yes, both would be good....acting like a TT-Hub for Europe!
(Jurian) I'm not sure how Nancy feels about it
(Jan) I think we should look further into this when the server arrives. The mail lists may be a challenge though, when fear & panic kicks in...
(Brent) I don't see why Nancy would object....
(Mary) Well, maybe we should ask. But maybe we better wait until the sever gets to you.
(Jurian) It will easily be able to cope with tons of email
(Jan) Nancy has been somewhat back & forth with respect to TT. Currently, I think she is trying to concentrate mostly on ZT, so she should not have any problem with physically splitting them.
(Jurian) But yes, lets wait until the darn thing arrives.. stupid shipping company #&@)*
(Jan) I agree. Thank you for the update, Jurian
(Jurian) Quite welcome :-)
(Jurian) Looks like there may be a slight problem
(Jurian) I just asked the guy to ask the shipping company where it is..
(Jurian) "Hey Sirgrim, can you smack that shipping company again someday soon? see if they know where the sun went?"
(Jurian) Sirgrim: "Jurian: they said the ... thing was delivered, I told the ... to give me the addy it was delivered to so i can kill them for stealing muh sheet."
(Jan) As to mailing lists, we may need to discuss their operation later on, if and when things take off. Currently, they are rather quiet, but I think that will change when Planet X can be seen with amateur scopes later this year.
(Jan) Jurian, I hope it was insured?
(Jurian) It was
(Brent) Will this Sirgrim be fileing with the Insurance Co. to get the local authoraties involved?
(Jurian) Heh, I don't suppose Nancy could ask the zeta's where the hell the thing is? :D
(Jurian) Let me ask him
(Jurian) Sirgrim; "I'll see what these ... can find first cause I have a case open with them. If they don't have my ... by friday or tell me where it's at, I'll do that, or by wednesday."
(Brent) Good....Thanks him for us will you Jurian?
(Jurian) Will do :)
(Brent) Any other discussion on the servers?
(Jurian) Not here
(Brent) Moving on to Item 4...Mary?
(Mary) As you know there have been problems with the copier. I've mailed out 103 copies, 52 since the first of January. The orders are starting to increase with queries about multiple orders.
(Mary) With the things that are happening in my life I'm not sure I can keep up with lots of orders.
(Mary) The cost for a new drum will be about 179$
(Mary) Add that to the cost of toner, paper and etc. I think we will be at the get it published point.
(Roger) How much did we pay for this copier to begin with?
(Jan) Mary, I've read your copier report, and remember the time spent that you mentioned in a previous meeting.
(Mary) All supplies cost initially 700.
(Jan) All considered, I would say it's about time to move to a printing service, and you just handle the distribution.
(Roger) Hmm, that's nearly 40% of the orginal cost.
(Mary) Exactly Roger.
(Roger) I agree with Jan.
(Mary) Problem is, I can't get to a town to get this book printed.
(Jan) Mary, was it a used copier?
(Mary) I live way way out.
(Mary) Jan, no it was new.
(Mary) It actually does a good job considering.
(Jan) Any guarantee?
(Roger) Stan--do you think that between the two of us we could get some of the printing taken care of at Kinkos in town?
(Mary) Yes, but I have gone way past that.
(Stan) Yes I'm sure we could
(Mary) You guys would be saints. The mailing is a piece of cake!
(Brent) Lost Shirley.....be right back......
(Jan) Would it make sense if Roger and Stan got the booklet printed and shipped to you Mary, and you distribute them still?
(Roger) I've already made contact with them and my estimates are posted in a previous log. It's just a matter of recontacting them and getting them the PDF's
(Mary) Jan, no, too much money and it's too easy to get them mailed.
(Mary) If I no longer do the booklets we need to figure out what to do with the copier.
(Jan) Mary, I didn't understand what you ment by that?
(Jan) If Roger and Stan got them printed, we still need somebody to handle the distribution requests, right?
(Mary) It would cost too much to bulk mail the booklets to me and then I turn around and mail them to the people who request them.
(Mary) Roger and Stan live across the US from me.
(Mary) The packaging and postage and getting them to the mailbox is not time consuming.
(Roger) On the other hand, Mary, you are already set up for the distribution and if we bulk mail them to you in advance of your orders (keeping you stocked with a 100 or so surplus), then you can continue to distribute them.
(Jan) Mary, that still needs to be done, and AFAIK we don't have any other volunteer for that. What would it cost to send 100 booklets to you?
(Mary) I would be happy to do that. The question is really, do we have the money to get the booklets printed.
(Mary) The cost to mail to me? I don't know.
(Jan) Roger, do you remember the figure for printing?
(Roger) The reason for the printing here in ... is the much lower cost. I think we would come out fairly even considering the bulk shipping to Mary.
(Roger) Hmmm, not of the top of my head. It's in the logs...
(Mary) It was $718
(Jan) As a general comment, TT no longer tries to run all the grand projects once envisioned. While ZT gets the word about the PS out, TT should concentrate on the message that people can make it through. The booklet is crucial in this, and should be high priority even if we have to pay postage twice.
(Mary) Opps, that was Brent's quote.
(Brent) Yes, I think Rogers was cheaper....
(Mary) I'm thinking it was about $550.
(Roger) Still trying to find it...
(Brent) So the bottom line...is it cheaper to fix the copier, or print and ship to Mary?
(Mary) Well, yes and no. We're also talking about the time to produce.
(Brent) Over all, it seems cheaper to fix the copier....
(Roger) Got it! $277 + change for 100 books
(Jan) Given the time Mary spends for the copying, we should consider printing anyhow.
(Brent) $179 for repair, $550 for just printing....
(Mary) If I get 10 orders for one person. That takes me a long time and if that increases to 20 or 30 in one week, I can't do it.
(Roger) Brent--it was $277 for printing here.
(Jan) Roger, what's "+ change"?
(Mary) I have had 2 queries for cost 10 to 20 booklet
(Roger) Well, my memory failed on the transfer from the web page to the typing. It was $277.73. In other words 73 cents of change.
(Brent) That is a good price Roger. What about both? fix the copier, but at Rogers price, get 100 booklets printed as a reserve for Mary?
(Jan) We currently have 5K+ in the bank. USD 277 for 100 + postage should be no problem. We may have to rethink the cost of the booklet, though.
(Mary) Basically, I'm worried about the increase in orders and keeping up on them.
(Jan) Maybe we should put a cap on number of booklets to one person, maybe max 5 or 10?
(Roger) My quote was $440 less than the East Coast quote (Toni's quote). Surely the postage isn't near that.
(Mary) I don't mind telling them they have to wait, but what if I get 5 individual orders every day and them a big order/ I may be worried for no reason, I would like to see a plan in place if this happens.
(Roger) Plus, Mary has suggested that the workload increase may very soon become to much for one person and a copier.
(Brent) Yes, and my quote was the same as Toni's...
(Jan) Brent, I don't think a USD 500 copier is up to this kind of usage. I think we should move to printing regardless, and then decide separately whether the copier should be repaired (for other TT use or backup usage)¨
(Brent) So...again....what about both options?
(Mary) Hey! its not broke YET!
(Mary) I can continue as is for now. But, we need a plan.
(Mary) I think I have enough supplies to publish about 50 more books.
(Jan) Mary, sorry I misunderstood that. Still, I move we go for printing, and use the copier for backup purposes
(Brent) So....lets discuss printing 100 copies for back up purposes..... Mary will have a reserve!
(Roger) We could get 100 printed here and find out the shipping cost. This will certainly give us the numbers we need, and it will stock Mary with a 100 to the good for future orders.
(Mary) Thanks people. This would ease my mind considerably.
(Brent) Yes, Roger....that's wahat I meant.....comments?
(Mary) Can Roger and Stan nail down the cost and submit it at the next meeting?
(Mary) I can estimate the weight and find out the cost to ship them.
(Roger) I hit the enter just slightly after you Brent, hehe
(Jan) I move we approve the printing of 100 booklets, bulk mail to Mary, and that we revisit this point when we know the final cost at the next meeting. No need to wait until next meeting to get this thing going!
(Brent) Is that waiting too long, Mary? We could have a motion to approve the 100 printing NOW, just to get it in motion, and in case the copier breaks down...
(Mary) NO, I think that is just about right.
(Roger) Mary, if you email me the weight and the ship to address, I can ask my postmaster what it would cost. Send it to ...
(Jan) Brent, you already have that motion
(Mary) Will do Roger.
(Brent) LOL...You read my mind, Jan! :)
(Roger) We'll need the $277 or so in advance. Might just want to approve a check for $300 even and we can return the unused, or keep for the next batch.
(Mary) I second the motion.
(Brent) Shirley seconds the motion
(Roger) Jan, care to amend you motion?
(Jan) Roger, we can ask Nancy to send that after the meeting.
(Roger) Discretionary, huh?
(Brent) Yes, Roger
(Jan) I move we also approve the cost of USD 300 for printing & mailing, to be forwarded to the organizer of the printing
(Jurian) I second Jan's motion
(Jan) Finally, I move that we put a cap of max 10 booklets to one recipient
(Jurian) Yeah, why?
(Brent) Is there a concern that someone is selling the booklets?
(Jan) I believe we will be making a loss per booklet, and may have to revisit the cost when we have all parameters after printing etc.
(Jan) The cap would be more important if Mary was to keep on copying, so I can withdraw the proposal for a cap
(Mary) I have been asking the requester why so many and they have each told me "to give to friends"
(Roger) Perhaps a better change would be to say "$5 plus shipping" for each booklet.
(Brent) And we are charging for the extras Mary?
(Jurian) can't we have them pay if they need more than 10 ?
(Mary) Yes, $5 each
(Jan) Proposal for cap hereby withdrawn, to be discussed at a later meeting
(Roger) Then we might have some leeway to discount for bulk orders?
(Mary) The cost to mail 5 is the same as the cost to mail 2.
(Mary) the weight thing.
(Mary) 1st free, $5 each after that.
(Roger) But we will soon find out the cost to mail 100 and if someone wants that many, we could skip the ship to Mary step.
(Mary) BTW, 70 to the US, 15 to Canada, 4 to Australia and 13 to various Euro contries.
(Mary) Roger, multiple requests must be sent to Nancy for receipt of funds. She can forward the address' to you.
(Roger) I was thinking that if we had a request for 100 or so, I could ship direct to them, rather than sending them to you first. This would reduce our shipping expenses and might facilitate a discount for the recipient.
(Mary) Yes, understood.
(Mary) Mailing costs will be increasing in June/July.
(Roger) Only for first class domestic, right)
(Roger) hehe, )=?
(Mary) Currently the cost is: 1.34 US; 2.10 Canada; 6.20 Australia and $2 something for Europe.
(Brent) We have never had a request for 100 booklets. lets burn that bridge when we get to it. So, back to the original amemded motion. We need to vote on approving $300 for printing, and shipping to Mary. This is for backup booklets onhand.
(Jan) Let's work this out later, I have withdrawn my request for the cap, and Jurian has seconded my original motion
(Brent) Vote yes to approve, no against
(Brent) Brent & Shirley: Yes
(Brent) Motion carries: 100 booklets to be printed and shipped to Mary. $300 set to Roger for costs.
(Mary) ((-: Thanks all, that's a load off my mind, small mind that it is it can't hold too much!
(Jan) Brent, who contacts Nancy for sending the money?
(Brent) I will....
(Brent) No problem
(Brent) Moving on to item 5 Shortwave Radio Project. Questons for Shirley?
(Jurian) nope :)
(Jan) None from me. I'll contact Shirley directly when I'm ready to get going from my site later this year
(Roger) Hehe, "desparate old maid"
(Brent) Shirley: Great, Jan!
(Jan) Good to know she is up and running
(Brent) Shirley: LOL
(Gerard) I have no questions either
(Brent) OK, shall we move on to item 6?
(Brent) Item 6 Moving 800 number to Cass in Canada. Comments?
(Jan) Is the 800 number on the booklets that have been sent out?
(Jan) If so, I don't think we should change the number, but move it.
(Mary) Why would the people who already have the book need the 800 number?
(Roger) I think that was a definite possibility.
(Roger) Moving the number, but not changing it.
(Jan) Somebody may see a copy at a friends house, and want to order one themselves.
(Mary) good point.
(Brent) Mary: some of the boklets are going to folks without internet access. the 800 number is for direct contact.
(Mary) If you call an 800 number that is disconnected, does the operator come on and tell you that number has been changed to.........
(Brent) Shirley: yes but only for a while......
(Jan) Mary, not knowing the US specifics, such services are normally for a limited time only
(Mary) Well, I could send a notice to the people who have ordered the booklet. But, they may not like it that I still have their address'
(Mary) Please note, no one else has this information, not even Nancy.
(Jan) Such a notice will disappear, and the booklet still be around. And there would be costs involved in that as well.
(Brent) Cass's costs were for changing the number only, not moving it. She will have to research the moving costs.
(Mary) True. So do we want to just move the number?
(Brent) Shirley: Lets have Cass research MOVING costs of the existing number for next meeting.
(Jan) I believe that cost would be on Nancy's side, not Cass' side
(Roger) Clearly we need more time for the expense research on this one.
(Brent) True, Roger. Let's thouroughly research moving options for next meeting.
(Jan) I don't think we should need any further research, but decide upon a move. If Cass and/or Nancy decides the cost for moving is too high, then they may at their own discression evaluate that cost against the problems of a new number
(Roger) Shirley, do you recall the cost for moving the number to your location?
(Jan) If they find the cost too high (or we could put a cap on), then they get a new number instead
(Brent) Shirley: one of the problems of moving the number is all details of the nonprofit, including names and addresses must be give to the phone company.
(Brent) Shirley: we didn't get into that, just the cost of changing the number.
(Roger) That shouldn't be a problem, unless they want all the boards members info.
(Brent) Shirley: They only want the names and addresses of the officers, not general board members.
(Jan) Shirley, in which way is this a problem? logistically or that we want to be careful with giving out the info?
(Brent) Shirley: it was a year ago now, and I can't really recall. It just seems to me that it's a big hassle, and at the time I remember thinking it would be a lot simpler to change to number over completley.
(Jan) We don't know if Cass will be a permanent solutionj, so we? What do we do the next time we have to move the 800 number?
(Roger) I move that we table this discussion in favor of obtaining more information RE: moving the existing number.
(Jan) Before we decide on this, what is the current status? Is the 800 number operational at all now?
(Brent) Shirley: Jan, if anything happens to Cass, I'll act as her backup.
(Jan) I think Nancy said the phone was broken?
(Roger) Just unplugged or something. It's working now I believe.
(Jan) Shirley, can the number be redirected to your home, or would that be another move?
(Brent) Shirley: Jan, she got a new phone, and the line is operational.
(Mary) I'm just going to throw this out. Can't Cass or Shirley call the answering machine and access the messages?
(Mary) They can then return the call, if need be, and charge TT for the cost.
(Brent) Shirley: Jan- it would be another move.
(Roger) Mary, there is a hope that someone might be able to answer the phone.
(Mary) Ah, see I get lost sometimes! (-:
(Roger) Also, if the 800 line is wired into your home, you can return calls on it for direct billing to the Inc.--no reimbursement necessary.
(Jan) I think we should conclude in this meeting, as not to lose time in the move. Nancy is a busy lady, and would not want to have the 800 number any longer, I think
(Roger) So, my motion...?
(Jan) The question should be move the cuurrent number or getting a new number
(Roger) And to answer that we need to know the req's for the move.
(Brent) Which Cass has not yet addressed.
(Roger) We already have some idea of the hassle for changing the number...i.e., notifying past recipients of the booklet, etc.
(Jan) Roger, tabling the discussion adds another month.I think we should let Nancy, Cass and Shirley decide, and then implement whatever they find best, but that we should DO it
(Brent) Shirley: I will inform Cass of what has gone on here today, and we will discuss, and see what we come up with. And report to the INC by email.
(Roger) Then I move that we move the 800 number, rather than changing it, unless the cost is prohibitive.
(Mary) Can we alocate an estimated dollar amount, like $100 or such with $50 per month to cover costs?
(Jan) I second Roger's motion
(Brent) How can we vote if we don't know the costs involved? what is "prohibitive"?
(Jan) Brent, I suggest amending Roger's motion:
(Jan) That we move the 800 number, provided it does not add more than USD100.00 in cost over obtaining a new number, and that a residential line is chosen, at least initially, based upon the costs forwarded by Cass
(Jan) That should have been USD 100. Sorry
(Roger) Prohibitive--so high or burdensome as to discourage purchase or use.
(Roger) (quoted from dictionary.com)
(Brent) Thanks Roger, although I didn't need a definition. I was responding to the motion context only.
(Roger) Ah, Jan's wording is/was my intent.
(Roger) (Thanks, Jan)
(Mary) Jans motion sounds reasonable. Discussion?
(Roger) I second Jan's rewording of my motion.
(Jan) Do we need further discussion? We've now spent close to 2 hours already...
(Mary) I have no further comments.
(Jurian) Nor me
(Stan) Sounds good to me
(Brent) We have a second to the motion. Vote yes to approve, no to disagree.
(Jan) Mary, I hope you didn't take that personally...
(Brent) Brent and Shirley: yes
(Mary) Naw, I knew what you meant.
(Brent) Motion is approved and carries.
(Brent) Moving on the Item 7: roger's acerage project....Roger?
(Roger) Stan and I were able to get 1/5 of the planned planting space tilled and ready for planting. We had a minor/temporary set back during the best day for tilling! Apparently there was a cotter key that secured the bolt for the main pulley on the tiller's pto. Was is the operative word here...this has been replaced and for only $50 (mostly labor). The tiller works fine again, but now it's too wet soooo...
(Roger) So we wait for it to dry up a bit and in the meantime, we have 1200 square foot of planting space ready.
(Roger) Also, Stan and I planted carrots which were over-wintered and hopefully will produce seed this year.
(Mary) Did you have the $50 to pay the repair costs?
(Jan) Roger, has that cost been taken care of by the allocations so far? Are there any (other) planned costs
(Jan) Mary, read my mind.. :-)
(Roger) I paid out of the discretionary funds I have. I still have approximately $185 remaining.
(Roger) I will be copying the receipts and forwarding them to Nancy this week.
(Roger) On an interesting note, Stan's 4 hp Snapper tiller works every bit as well as the Inc's 10 hp TroyBilt!
(Brent) Good, Roger....glad the repair cost was so low.
(Roger) The main difference being that is cuts a smaller swath.
(Stan) Lets hope it keeps running!
(Roger) It does make a deeper initial cut as well, but it clogs up quicker in damp soil.
(Roger) We should be getting some pictures soon and will send them to Nancy for posting, etc.
(Roger) Nothing further to report, any questions?
(Brent) Nice report, Roger. The pictures will be nice.
(Brent) Any other questions? I'm having massive phone problems here (equipment).
(Roger) We got lucky, I guess, with the repair. It could have been worse. At first blush, the mechanic said the bearing were bad. I stopped promptly and took it right in which very likely saved us a bunch of money, and time.
(Jan) Nice report. As the IA, I will be waiting for those pictures as proof of correct use of our funds (if sci.astro people start their cult and embezzlement drive again)
(Mary) Brent, I move we adjorn.
(Roger) I second the motion.
(Brent) Great. Meeting is adjorned. Thanks everyone! good meeting.