March 25, 2001
(Brent) Item 1: Minutes of last meeting. any discussion or comments?
(Jan) Good evening all (it's 8 PM in my location)
(Shaul) Here too...
(Nancy) Ok for Shirley and Nancy.
(Jurian) No comments here
(Shaul) Minutes are fine from here
(Mary) Ok here
(Toni) Ok here
(Gerard) Ok here
(Brent) OK, then the minutes are ratified as correct
(Brent) Item 2: Review of Project list
(Nancy) Shirley says "The On-Foot and maybe the (making) Clothing project should be dropped."
(Mary) I think that Distillation, Navigation and Smith Shop should be in written form
(Mary) On Foot has no leader
(Jurian) Regarding the Servers project, any idea when we can continue working on that? As in, when will the T1 line be ready?
(Nancy) Shirley says "There is so much information out there already, and the booklet can point to some or all of it."
(Roger) I think Mike is willing to consider the On Foot project again once things have settled down (and warmed up?). I am thinking about joining this project this summer as well.
(Shaul) This is true, but is the dropping of these two projects connected with the fact that both of them lost a "head" recently?
(Nancy) Jurian, this depends on funding, and the Julia Dula Foundation may still give us funds this year.
(Shaul) That was for what Helena said.
(Mary) The proposal for On Foot is for a video, do we need this, or booklet?
(Nancy) We can't get a T1 line in unless we have the funding to KEEP it going, my thinking. This is $800 to install, $800/mo apx.
(Shaul) I think that the video format for the On-foot should be revised. I, for one, don't own a video set (believe it or not...) It would be much more accessible in printed form.
(Jan) There's a number of projects "not sited" and "not staffed", planned at the time Ron was staying at Nancy's house. As activity now is lower, should we keep all these and hope other sites will take them on?
(Toni) A video is not necessary, my thinking, of the On Foot project.
(Shaul) I agree, Toni.
(Jurian) Nancy: True, but maybe it can be connected using a modem for a while, so we can work on it, get it ready for when we get the T1?
(Mary) However, there are LOTS of info out there on this. Do we need special instructions?
(Roger) I think there's no harm in having unstaffed/unsited projects.
(Nancy) Shirley says "That may be partly true, Sol, but when I began the booklet and did On-Foot and Clothing, it seemed to me that both could be just as well addressed by people reading the very good survival info that is already out there."
(Roger) It gives others ideas about what they might like to do to contribute.
(Mary) Roger, clarify.
(Shaul) I agree with Roger. We need projects which are "up for grabs", for future volunteers
(Toni) Someone will volunteer
(Nancy) Shirley says "We have too much that really needs doing, to waste our time reinventing the wheel".
(Shaul) I hear you, Shirley, you're right.
(Mary) Nancy, I agree.
(Shaul) But I understand that MTM was going to put a lot more into the On-Foot than is gonna be in the brochure...
(Nancy) I want to add that both On-Foot and Clothing were MADE into research projects only because someone was present and offering to do this. Ron and Wendy popped up and offered, etc.
(Roger) So, we should determine which of these projects are wheels?
(Mary) The On Foot project could be put to the bottom of the priority list.
(Nancy) Also, last year, we were thinking about collecting video a lot, but is there an easier way to GET the video. For instance, I'm thinking that a visit to a Shaker community or some museum might be more fruitful. The Amish have rules against being filmed.
(Brent) So which projects are satisfacturally covered by the booklet, and which aren't?
(Shaul) That's a good question.
(Brent) My thinking: the total of 5 mentioned by Shirley and Mary are covered
(Mary) I thought the projects were for on site demonstrations.
(Brent) Originally, but currently, we have no site for demonstrations.
(Nancy) Mary, originally this was Ron and my thinking, on site demos, but the Village objects, and franky I was not thinking this through. Having folks walk up, uninvited, or having their agendas in your face when you're exhausted and broke, is not feasible.
(Mary) Ok so do we need to revise the mission?
(Nancy) It interferes with prime goals and work to be done. So, no demo site.
(Nancy) I think we also need to remove from the list, as research projects, things that the PI was interested in for their own sake, not that it needed to be done.
(Mary) Such as?
(Nancy) For instance, Ron wanted to do the Wood Gas project, thought what Olli has documented is sufficient, a working model with diagrams, etc.
(Roger) That's reasonable.
(Nancy) Mary, also the Clothing project became a "do-it" project because Wendy was enthused and had a lot of ideas.
(Mary) I remember. Of all the items, we need to prioritize the projects.
(Nancy) The current list is a combo of my straw man which I posted on the tt-forum for ideas, and add-ons of what others wanted to do. For instance, there is a monolithic dome in there, because Clipper was planning to build one. No other reason, I think. Maybe we should have a plan for analyzing these, and do this off-line, revisiting this issue next month.
(Mary) Exactly, you type faster than I do.
(Shaul) Nancy, you know more about the history of these projects than anybody else here. What if you recommend a revised list, and then we can vote on it or discuss it.
(Mary) Excellent idea Sol.
(Shaul) It'll be awfully hard solving that issue now, with ten of us here and so many projects.
(Nancy) We should look at this from the standpoint of 1. is it covered in the booklet/existing documentation, 2. do we need video of this, and can we get this elsewhere, 3. what the priority is.
(Nancy) Jurian, Ron and you tried to patch through to the UNIX servers, and this failed, right?
(Jurian) Yeah, but he only had about 30 minutes for it, that's all the time we spent on it
(Jan) I think Nancy and Sol are on to it. The current list represents a previous modus operandi, and I believe many of the projects as listed today will never take off.
(Shaul) That seems to be the case
(Jan) A revised list with recommendations for the next meeting would make the decision process easier.
(Nancy) I volunteer to make a chart of these projects, put it on tt-inc for discussion. I will make columns for project, booklet/docu coverage, video candidate, and needing research. Any other columns needed?
(Brent) Can't think of any
(Brent) Good Sol....yes priority. Or leave that open for next meeting?
(Nancy) Jurian, I'm burried right now, but am willing to work with you on this! Let me get March web wrapping done, and update the booklet per Shirley's efforts, and THEN it will be your turn. OK?
(Jurian) ok :-)
(Nancy) Jurian, sent me the specs on what is needed, like a software patch. I have a Win 95 486, slow machine.
(Shaul) You got your work cut out for you, lady!
(Jurian) Will do :) I'll include instructions on how to set it up.
(Jan) What about validity? Some of the projects seem a bit unnecessary to me.
(Shaul) That's what we'll be voting on. But having Nancy's comments would surely help.
(Nancy) Jan, very good :-) I'll add that too.
(Brent) OK, shall we discuss the current assets/equipment? where and how they will be used?
(Nancy) Shirley says "Many of these project were listed before we started the booklet. Now we have a public way to point to the information, that is not Internet based."
(Shaul) We probably all agree that this is an excellent point, and precisely why a revision of the list is due.
(Nancy) Current assets, idle in essence, are 1. the $3,000 tiller, 2. lots of tools used to build the worm beds and the like.
(Jan) I agree with Shirley. Projects like Navigation can be terminated by listing a few good references in the booklet or on the TT site.
(Nancy) We have a small tiller here, purchase the first year, which can stay and be used on the seed gardens by my house. The big tiller is utterly wasted.
(Shaul) that's a shame... Is it sell-able at all, or do we still need it?
(Nancy) My son is currently building the last of the worm beds, or anyway doing woodworking wise what needs to be done, and we will no longer need all these lovely tools! However, they are insured here, and safe, but if they can be utilized, they darn well should be!
(Shaul) Question is what else could be done with them, short of selling, and that may not be worth it or necessary
(Brent) Has anyone requested use of the tools or tiller, Nancy?
(Nancy) Brent, no, Ron loved tools and was good with them, and at the time we had many projects that we were planning on building HERE, now all that has changed.
(Nancy) Shirley says "If Mary's campground ever gets going, some of this stuff might be needed there".
(Toni) More than likely there will be some community building in your area, Nancy, where the tools and tiller could be used.
(Nancy) Resale always finds a loss of $$ value, because it's used, etc.
(Shaul) Absolutely, I myself don't think that it sould be resold, now that we have it. It's not worth it usually, money-wise
(Nancy) Toni, but this is something that we are trying to avoid, having this be considered a "survival site". This is not a nonprofit effort.
(Brent) Since they are insured and protected there, maybe we should wait for a request of usage, then cross that bridge when we get to it.
(Shaul) There's a good idea!
(Nancy) Let me throw out a couple ideas. We also have here some old tools - wash machine, sewing machine, etc., that are good for demo, but no demo housing. In future, would the nonprofit have a site, an office that could be visited, and some things demo'd? My grandfather's old tools are here, Ron cleaned many of them up, and would be donated.
(Shaul) I think that's what we're hoping for, no?
(Nancy) Brent, yes, I think we should not move on these assets until a good option opens up, etc.
(Brent) Yes, if another spot is developed, these items could be demo'd, but NOT at Nancy's home.
(Jan) A demo site would be an excellent idea, but we have none at the moment. Given that there is only 2 years and 2 months left, we do not know if such a site will ever be operational.
(Shaul) Still, it's something to yearn for...
(Nancy) Also, the tiller might be used in Roger's area, as he is looking for acres for seed growing, or if we had a volunteer famer, giving us land AND time, etc.
(Jan) In the meantime, I think these tools should be stored where they are. Who knows what our friends will be cooking up?
(Brent) I agree, Jan
(Toni) I think they should be stored where they are, too
(Shaul) Are we in agreement, then?
(Roger) Until called for, they should stay.
(Brent) And if Roger decides he can use the tiller before anything else comes up, he will let us know, right Roger?
(Roger) Of course!
(Nancy) Yes, no problem store them here, they are safe, dry, insured, etc. Jan can vouch that they are stored separately from my personal stuff. Tools and supplies on 1/2 of the basement or garage, the other half my stuff, etc.
(Brent) OK, Jan's Off Grid energy project - should we add it to the projects list?
(Jurian) Off Grid energy is quite important
(Nancy) Yes! What would this entail?
(Jan) Brent, I am uncertain if it is the right time yet. I recently learned that Pitch Wind (the Swedish windmuill maker) is in trouble due to building permits not going through.
(Mary) Then lets wait.
(Brent) Any alternative windmill makers you can use, Jan?
(Jan) I am also struggling to get my project accepted within EU. As things look now, it may still take a month or 3 before I know what I will be able to achieve or not.
(Nancy) Would this entail all the options, windmill, water wheels, etc.? Is this a documentation project, or research project?
(Nancy) Shirley says "I think it should be a documentation project, mainly because - where are we going to do the research?"
(Nancy) Also, the items might be expensive. However, I'm curious about water wheels, the small kind. Well, this is documentation, still, not research as this info exists!
(Jan) I met with Southwestern in Flagstaff, Arizona a few weeks back, the makers of the Whisper windmills. They are smaller and more affordable, but I was hoping for a mix.
(Jan) The project is still on, but I would rather have something to report than just an empty placeholder so far.
(Brent) If Jan gets up and running, it would turn into a research project.
(Toni) If building permits can not be acquired, then the winmill has to be stored until later.
(Gerard) I can imagine that
(Brent) Shall we just wait and see then, as Mary suggested?
(Jan) It would not be any water wheels, as I have no streams on the area. It will be Off-Grid energy supply, DC & AC through windmills & battery storage mainly
(Toni) Jan, how much is the shipping from AZ?
(Nancy) Jan, yes, I felt your plan was excellent! It became a page in the recent web wrapping for Energy, in fact.
(Jan) I don't know, but those windmills are "only" about 70 kilos (200 pounds), so it shouldn't be too expensive
(Shaul) That's not much at all.
(Nancy) I think it is very valuable to have a functioning x or y, not just theory, in these vital areas.
(Shaul) Sure, but don't these things exist already (though maybe not with our membership)
(Nancy) For instance, the lab in the basement gave us worm water as hydo solution, which was an UNKNOWN worldwide, until this! Small trial, big impact.
(Toni) I believe there is a supplier in VT, the Burlington area, which would be closer.
(Nancy) Now, I ordered 5 little chicks to live on top of the worm beds, chicks on worms alone (should be OK) to see if this works. Cost $6.25.
(Jan) As to off-grid AC, there is in fact a lot of research that has to be done. Pitch Wind will be the first commercially available model, if they make it through.
(Nancy) Feeding catfish and chicks earthworms or whatever that live on compost, in the dim light, is something that in theory works, but .. So the lab in my basement can explore multiple options like this, etc.
(Shaul) You got a great set-up there, no doubt about it.
(Brent) So, the concensus seems to be: wait till Jan gets something physically going, then talk about adding it to the Project list?
(Jan) Wrapping up on the energy project, I should be able to provide a write-up and a recommendation for inclusing or not before the next Board meeting.
(Shaul) That sounds real good
(Nancy) Any other issues that could be explored in the basement lab to be included? I want to get algae too, but have not built the setup yet, etc. Algae needs a lot of light, so I was thinking plastic tubes, as this was in an article years ago as a way to clean ater up.
(Brent) The "Algae towers"?
(Nancy) Carbon Arc might be adjusted to provide true sunlight replacement, and high intensity LEDs are now coming on the scene, so light bults and lighting is still kind of a research project, my thinking.
(Nancy) Brent, yes, I have an old article, done in Japan, I think.
(Nancy) Also, chicks in the greenhouse is a good synergy, as their breath has ammonia, believe it or not!
(Jan) I would also like to see the basement projects converted to off-grid energy, running on DC. Today, everything is straight AC, which will be much harder to come by post-PS
(Jurian) Watch out with the chicken poo tho, its too strong to directly use on planting soil
(Nancy) Jurian, it's my hunch that maybe the earthworms will eat it, etc., converting it to liquid fertilizer, etc.
(Toni) Chicks will eat little green plants too
(Jurian) Only one way to make sure :-)
(Nancy) Jan, yes, a good 2002 project would be to run this basement lab on DC, etc.
(Brent) I think these are all viable projects. We could add some to the potential projects list.
(Nancy) What my basic thinking is - to provide folks with a solution set (this works!) that they can achieve. Between the basement lab and Jan's efforts, we're providing a couple elements.
(Brent) Yes, very true!
(Nancy) We need light bulbs, though, is why I'm so hot on Carbon Arc exploration. Ray C, newcomer, has hands on in that area. I'd love to recruit him!
(Shaul) Is he eligible now?
(Brent) Sol: yes, he has many contributions to the current webwrapping material
(Jan) Yes, that's another problem we need to address. I think MikeL has posted a lot about LEDs for lightening, but what's the status on such devices?
(Shaul) Invite him, then.
(Brent) Good idea! :-)
(Nancy) Sol, haven't approched him. New poster, stuff on Energy section. VERY experienced and broad scope guy, like Mike L.
(Jan) One thing this discussion shows me: Better with fewer projects, but that they are actually worked on in depth.
(Shaul) There are many new people who are eager to volunteer, but they must be approached about this.
(Gerard) Didn't I see something about white leds, could be that I saw it somehwere else in a magazine or so?
(Mary) Sorry to be a poop, but could we get back on track. We aren't even past item #2.
(Jan) I believe there is a lot of research going on on LEDs, but are they usable and affordable yet?
(Roger) Not affordable with our limited budget.
(Nancy) Good point, Mary, I think we will be discussing the project on tt-inc, and should move on!
(Shaul) Mary's absolutely right. We've moved off the agenda.
(Brent) OK, Item 3 Jan's short wave radio report
(Jan) OK folks, if we're on to the next item: Have you read my (corrected) TT Radio Project description?
(Shaul) Yup, good one
(Jan) Shirley pointed out a few typos for me.
(Jan) Anything any of you would like to comment or ask?
(Jurian) Nope, looks good to me
(Shaul) It's like the Nike people said...
(Mary) I liked it. Am I correct in that you are acting as an advisor?
(Brent) I like it as it is.
(Nancy) Jan's re-write looks great. Shirley has pointed out to me the main difference, in her view, with Ron's, being that you are requiring a license up front, which is in any case needed for participation.
(Jan) That is right, Mary. I am not as skilled as Ron was, but will be trying my best. Just have to wait for my Morse license and tower.
(Nancy) Jan, I put your e-mail as contact on all the /radio/ pages, classes that Ron developed, as his e-mail addy is no longer active. I will add your radio handle too, if you wish.
(Jan) Nancy, maybe you should wait, since my current call sign does not include HF priveliges, I will get a new call sign when (or should I say if) I pass the Morse test.
(Nancy) OK, I'll wait :-)
(Jan) Being off topic, I am currently at 50 characters per minute, the requirement for June is 60 cpm.
(Nancy) Looking ahead to the next agenda item, I think it's interesting that when the booklet got mentioned on tt-forum, that someone wanted to get one, right away! May be a popular item.
(Brent) Does anyone see a need to revise or add to Jan's short wave project?
(Mary) No, it is great just as it is.
(Nancy) I think it's good as written, and if approved will update the appropirate pages, for review by Jan and the tt-inc, etc.
(Shaul) It's good
(Toni) It's very good
(Brent) I'd say we all approve of it.
(Brent) Ok, moving on to Item 4: review and vote on booklet costs.
(Mary) Has everyone read the printing and binding costs?
(Shaul) There's one thing missing there, I think: the bottom line.
(Mary) The bottom line depends upon several items.
(Toni) Is it going to be in color?
(Nancy) Looks like if we buy a copier, and I think we should, that it would be $2+ per booklet, excluding postage.
(Mary) One being the coping costs and another the number of pages.
(Shaul) Sure, like quantity and whether we want to sell and how many.
(Shaul) Ah, right, those too.
(Nancy) I think we should approve these costs and let Mary get setup, as Shirley is cranking on the booklet and the .pdf looks good to most reviewing it.
(Nancy) We can be ready, then, in a couple months, to respond to requests.
(Mary) I assumed we would not print in color. Is that correct?
(Nancy) Having the .pdf online will reduce the demand, somewhat, but we will still get orders, I think.
(Mary) BTW, the .pdf on line is great.
(Nancy) Toni, we were thinking b/w, gray tones, to save $$.
(Toni) That is still digital
(Brent) And, color copiers are much more expensive
(Jan) That personal copier seems cheap, and will probably only provide single-sided copies, no sorter etc. While the Inc may need a copier for office use, I don't think this will be good anough for the booklet
(Toni) A small one is not too expensive
(Jan) What about color printing or using an external copier service?
(Nancy) Mary, will the copier you quoted do the steps that will be needed?
(Shaul) About the online .pdf - I couldn't open it on the machine I was on this afternoon, because it had a firewall and disabled Active-X controls.
(Mary) Jan, the sorter kind is way too expensive. I will just need to do lots of patience.
(Nancy) I know you can turn to paper around, to copy on the other side, but this takes time, etc.
(Shaul) This should be considered for the on-line version.
(Mary) Nancy, we simply cannot afford the big copier. I will MAKE it work.
(Mary) Once the masters are made the rest will be by rote.
(Toni) Hand sorting is Ok
(Nancy) I'm sure the .pdf will not be available to everyone, and then some will want the booklet because it's bound, easier to sent to friends or whatever.
(Nancy) Last time we talked about this, we determined NOT to charge, but should we be asking $3 each booklet? Maybe if the demand picks up a lot.
(Shaul) How was that particular figure arrived at?
(Mary) Yea, I think something should be charged.
(Nancy) I got the impression that tt-forum would have a bunch of folks asking for one, right off! Yet they have the web site right there!
(Toni) I like the idea of first copy free, additional at cost
(Roger) $3 each for 100 pages of this kind of information is a steal!
(Shaul) Sure, the main people who would want it first would be the current TT members...
(Mary) But, the members can access it right off the web...go figure.
(Nancy) Sol, Mary's costs detail per/book, etc.
(Shaul) Yes it's very cheap, Roger. That's why I was asking why we chose that particular sum
(Nancy) Sol, this is a link off the agenda.
(Shaul) If you mean the .pdf version - then yes, sure, I know and I'm just saying that machines with disabled Active-X controls can't access it, that's all.
(Nancy) I'm concerned that we might get hundreds of requests, from folks who don't really need it. If we ask for the $3, we're putting aside those unnecessary requests.
(Shaul) Ah, like a symbolic sum. That's not a bad idea, to discourage scroungers.
(Mary) I agree. We will not be making a profit!
(Nancy) Shirley says "If someone does not have the $3, the booklet won't do them any good anyway!"
(Shaul) We're 'non-profit' after all...
(Brent) I like the idea of first one free, then a charge...mabe even $4 or $5.00 a booklet, to put back into cost of production.
(Roger) $3 is not so much as to make it impossible for all to have a copy, and it also will yield no profit for us with equipment maintenance, etc.
(Jan) Nancy, I agree on charging $3 or more (maybe $5), but that it may be given away for free by individial decision.
(Shaul) It's a good idea, Brent, But first one free could still put us in a deep hole if many thousands want one.
(Mary) How much can we assign to this project? If we got 200 orders, so we have the money?
(Nancy) I'm concerned that we not expend our time and funds on a lazy-man's approach. If someone on tt-forum asked where they could get the booklet, what does that say? I'm too lazy to distill the essence, and read, so you send me the booklet?
(Shaul) So quickly, how much would 200 copies cost us total?
(Nancy) This way, at least, our costs are covered.
(Gerard) Sorry that I left all of the sudden, electricity problems.
(Nancy) If they have this access, tt-forum, they can print off the .pdf, find a friend who does not have a firewall, or whatever.
(Shaul) Great show. That's not much at all, and actually well within our current budget, as I understand it.
(Mary) I don't think 200 will be requested until a much later date.
(Shaul) What do you mean, why not?
(Mary) Word of mouth. After the video airs, more will request.
(Shaul) Ah sure, if we don't do any advertising, but the ZT site is big enough in itself.
(Shaul) Welcome, Barry!
(Barry) Ola! FInally :)
(Jan) I think we may have to stock many booklets. People are still dreaming on, only us cracpots are concerned about the PS. When things go bad later this year or during 2002, requests may just pour in!
(Brent) I like the idea of having a booklet for quick reference, when I'm not online.
(Jurian) Barry: Welcome, heh, can you tell Gerard your email adress so he can check if you're on his list? :)
(Barry) Yeah, I kinda guess that I am not.
(Shaul) I agree, Brent. It's a nice handy thing to have.
(Nancy) We charge $5 to individuals who want one of Geson's TV clips, the 4 minute thing. We've pulled in about $200 from that, and it does NOT cover costs, but comes close. So, we don't go bankrupt over that, can leave it without worry, as if 1,000 ask for this, the nonprofit is down very little, net.
(Gerard) I did send it for what I know.
(Brent) Sorry, I got bumped
(Jurian) Yeah but he might not be on your list :)
(Nancy) Barry, Shirley needs your snail mail and phone number as Secretary.
(Shaul) But later.
(Barry) Ok, let me know a good time to pass it on.
(Shaul) Sorry, been working all day, Sunday's a workday here.
(Mary) So, do we charge or not?
(Brent) I lost the thread, are we ready to vote on purchaseing a copy machine?
(Nancy) Jan, we should not copy and bind too many, as the booklet is a work-in-process, can change for new info. Copy/binding should be the LAST MINUTE step, my thinking.
(Shaul) No, we haven't got to that one yet, Brent
(Nancy) If we get huge demand in 2002, we will need to elicite more than poor Mary's efforts, I'm sure.
(Brent) Thanks sol :-)
(Nancy) I move that we approve a $500 (cap) copier and supplies for 100 or so booklets, reasonable number, for Mary to get started.
(Jan) Nancy, you're right. The booklet will have to be an ongoing thing, being updated when LED lightning comes along etc.
(Toni) Sounds good
(Shaul) That sum does not inlcude the copy machine, right?
(Nancy) I further move that Mary can recieve a pre-pay check, as she has posted her costs per the Bylaw requirements for this, so she will have no out-of-pocket.
(Brent) It DOES include a copy machine.
(Nancy) She will need a couple months to get setup, and should get started!
(Nancy) Shirley says "I second that".
(Roger) I second Nancy's two part motion as well.
(Mary) Hey, I can get set up faster than that1
(Brent) All in favor vote yes, opposed, no
(Shaul) Friends, a last comment in this regard if I may...
(Jan) I propose we up that limit, if the trasurer finds we can afford it. A copier that price may not fill our needs, I think.
(Shaul) I agree, Jan! that's exactly what I wanted to point out.
(Shaul) A cheap copier may be good for a limited number of copies.
(Nancy) Sol, my motion was for $500 for copier, and whatever else for supplies, to cover a minimum of 100 booklets. This will be supplies for MORE than 100 booklets, as the lower cost should be considered. Envelopes, for instance, were 100 in a box.
(Mary) No, I have checked into it and I am sure I can get a good copier for that price.
(Shaul) But if we get a big demand then the low-price copier would not be enough, and we'd need to go to a printer anyway, no?
(Jan) Ok, no further comments then.
(Nancy) The $500 is to cover printing cartridges and all that, shipping, etc. This is just a pre-pay, not the final bill or approval, etc.
(Shaul) Thing is, I've done both copying and publishing in the past, so that's why I'm saying
(Nancy) Shirley and Nancy vote yes.
(Shaul) Ok, I abstain then
(Mary) Sol, did I miss something, what are you saying?
(Shaul) My point was that, although a copier is a good idea, but would a 200$ copier really give us the kind of work we need to put out a nice enough booklet. That was my question.
(Mary) Quality is your concern?
(Nancy) I think if the demand gets huge, we will enlist a publisher. We'll have to. Mary needs to sleep sometime :-)
(Brent) We have a majority, the motion passes.
(Shaul) And when the quantity increases, the quality goes down with a cheap machine, this is well known.
(Nancy) Shirley says "I move that for first and subsequent copies of the booklet, a $3 charge be required."
(Nancy) I second that motion.
(Brent) Vote yes or no on the $3 charge per booklet, then.
(Nancy) Sol, my motion was for $500 cap for the copier ALONE, other costs per her outline of costts.
(Jan) Before we vote, are we certain USD 3 is enough?
(Mary) For starters it will do.
(Jan) Well, too late there.
(Jan) Yes (For USD 3 or above)
(Brent) Lets just have it as a starting point...
(Mary) We can always increase/decrease the cost at a later date.
(Shaul) It's unfortunate that we stall on some things and then rush others before each person has a say.
(Brent) Agreed, Mary
(Nancy) Shirlely and Nancy vote yes on $3 charge.
(Shaul) Yes on the 3$ charge
(Brent) The motion for charging $3 passes. Would you like to add any thing for the record, Sol?
(Nancy) Jan, this will be slightly under, per Mary's projections, I think, but cover MOST of the cost. And this puts the request into a different view. Those who are lazy-men will then print it off from the .pdf, my thinking, not ask for a copy.
(Shaul) I've already said it, thanks.
(Nancy) Postage is the unknown, but it will be close to $3 total I think.
(Barry) Then that $3 just covers postage?
(Brent) And as costs rise, we can review them later.
(Nancy) The nonprofit, with a large volumn, can get FREE postage, by the way, but the PO explained to me that you need to post in 100 or 200 in a bunch, for this, not onesy-twosy.
(Brent) No, Barry $2.16 to $2.48 per booklet, then postage.
(Barry) Ok, got it. Thanks
(Barry) I'm a little slow these days...
(Brent) Ok, moving on to Item 5: vote on award for booklet development
(Nancy) Per book it would be $2.16 or $2.48, with postage probably being some ounces, for 100 page, no?
(Mary) Yes, correct.
(Nancy) The issue is first or lower class, but often a package going first class is $1.60 or $3.20! Maybe we need to have Mary look into costs, for such a booklet, and come back next month! We can up it, to cover postage. Then the issue of international postage comes up. This is always much more expensive, unless one goes by boat - 3 months to get there!
(Jan) Be right back.
(Mary) Until one is actually made, we won't know the postage.
(Nancy) So, do we have, in this case, potentially, international printing elsewhere? With a .pdf, this is possible!
(Roger) You could always accumulate 100 orders before shipping out, or have an express shipping option for the order which would cost more.
(Mary) We could ask for more for overseas shipping.
(Nancy) Mary, we could take 50 pages, letter, and weigh this, and get an idea, maybe.
(Roger) Let the patron wait 4 to 6 weeks for "printing" or send an extra $2 to get it in 2 weeks.
(Mary) Yea, have something here that will weight about the same. Let me get the numbers for next meeting.
(Shaul) On item 5 - saying as we have the Treasurer's word that we have funds for this, then I move that Shirley be awarded $1,000 for her work on the brochure.
(Nancy) I think eventually we will be using our nonprofit free postage option, but not to start. Roger''s thoughts on expedited or slow are good. Lets see the options that Mary can gather, and go from there.
(Roger) I second Sol's motion.
(Nancy) I second the motion.
(Brent) All in favor of $1000 to Shirley, vote yes, opposed, no
(Barry) Yes to 1k
(Nancy) I vote yes, and Shirley abstains.
(Jan) Back again.
(Jan) Yes to 1K
(Brent) Motion carries... and thanks for your efforts, Shirley!
(Shaul) Great job, Shirley, and congrats!
(Nancy) Shirley says "thank you, all".
(Mary) Can I call for a vote? Or does Brent need to do that?
(Jan) Great work! Congrats!
(Mary) Sorry... yes
(Brent) Moving on to Item 6: 800 answering service in Shirleys home
(Jurian) Sorry for late vote, but I vote yes.
(Shaul) Better late then never!
(Gerard) I vote yes too, did I vote?
(Brent) Has everyone reviewed the 800 # costs linked to the agenda?
(Nancy) I want to point out, that for the cost of installing the 800 number in Shirley's home, we get an answering service for free.
(Brent) You're in there, Gerard :-)
(Mary) I must have missed the $ link. What is the cost?
(Nancy) Today, we have the taped message. The other day, the phone rang every hour, for two evenings running. No message left! I tried to get to the machine, to answer with a human voice, but they had hung up.
(Shaul) You mean, because Shirley's volunteering to do it for free?
(Nancy) Someone did NOT want to leave a message. Having a person answer, at least some of the time, has value.
(Shaul) Absolutely, we've already agreed on that before
(Brent) Yes, Sol, if we install the line in her home.
(Nancy) Mary, it was added couple days ago, mar25018.htm in /nonproft/
(Nancy) Sol, yes, costs of installing covered, time devoted, no charge.
(Brent) The residential costs are cheaper.. can we go that route?
(Shaul) I agree with Brent, unless we have a definite prognosis of very many phone calls.
(Nancy) These costs are in Canadian.
(Nancy) Shirley says "We costed an answering machine that was $69 Canadian, but the cost American is $43-44."
(Toni) As I recall, the prices for both business and res were reviewed, and I preferred the res cost
(Brent) Nancy: yes, I saw that, but the residential fees are still cheaper than the business fees.
(Nancy) We paid $165, as I recall, to install the 800 number here in my home.
(Shaul) What, a Canook dollar is that low these days?
(Nancy) Shirley's costs are $170, but in USD, this would be less than that. Very comparable, and I believe less than costs here in Wisconsin.
(Shaul) Are there costs involved in transfering the number to Canada as well? (There would be here, for example.)
(Brent) I agree, but can we get the residential rate as a nonprofit organization?
(Shaul) Was just gonna ask that...
(Barry) Jurian - a side note - I just found the msg :( I just reworked my hotmail boxes and it went to a different box.
(Jurian) Ah :-)
(Shaul) He who seeketh... etc
(Nancy) Shirley says "You can't get a residential rate as a nonprofit."
(Gerard) Ah, so I did send the email Barry :)
(Shaul) Aha! so that's out then, and we're left with only one option, right?
(Nancy) I think if Shirley get's caught, we'd have to pay more anyway, so why not just be business to start.
(Barry) O - yes
(Nancy) This way, no worry or trouble.
(Shaul) Yes, this would probably involve fines and such
(Barry) The differenc between the 2 options is not that onerous.
(Roger) And it could be used for Shirley's access to these meetings as well.
(Brent) Agreed, so as sol says, we do only have the one option.
(Nancy) Sol, we could have Shirley sneak, but I hate to see us do that, etc.
(Shaul) So we're talking about an annual outlay of about $2,200, which is also well within the budget.
(Brent) Good point, Roger.
(Shaul) No, that's out of the question, Nancy, why should we?
(Barry) Sol - is it that high?
(Nancy) Shirley says, "The calls are cheaper under busines, thought the monthly rate is higher, and we also have to pay a charge for not advertising as a business"
(Nancy) This not advertising was in place here, too, small charge, etc.
(Shaul) $180 a month for 12 months - do the figuring.
(Jan) Nope Sol - $180 for installation, $46 per month.
(Barry) That was a per month charge? Guess I could use some sleep...
(Brent) Nancy: not advertising, even though we are a nonprofit?
(Shaul) Ah! stupid me. Sorry! It's me who could use sleep, after the 11 hours work day... :-)
(Nancy) Shirley says "I think we should take the option of the $.35 for 10 minutes."
(Barry) Nope, I got you beat today with jr.'s night owl antics.
(Brent) Good idea, Shirley.
(Nancy) Let me summarize Shirley long explanation for this - $.25 a call, anyway, even if only a minute, most calls would be more than a minute, for $.35 for 10 minutes, a bargain.
(Roger) How does that option work?
(Shaul) Is this only for incoming calls, by the way? Or are we planning on calling people?
(Roger) So it's 35 cents for each call up to 10 minutes? What about after 10 minutes?
(Nancy) Shirley says "$180 install, more than $46 per month as there is a usage thing, more like $55 estm."
(Jan) $180 install, $60*12 = $900 first year.
(Shaul) About 800-900 bucks a year all told then (or I go back to arithmetic class).
(Nancy) Roger, if it's $.35 you pay that for any call, even under 10 minutes, but make it on the longer calls.
(Nancy) Else, at $.25/minute, a 10 minute call is $2.50!
(Brent) The $.35 works out the best.
(Roger) Right, but what about calls over 10 minutes?
(Nancy) I think the existing 800 number could be switched to Shirley, no problem. They are international. I would have to drop it, and have her install it, the overlap being the problem, I think. As long as we are the same company, this could be done, I'm sure. What if an existing 800 needs to have the office moved?
(Brent) Good idea, switch existing to Shirley
(Nancy) Roger, another $.35, I suppose.
(Nancy) Shirley says "With residential installation, there would be no calling outside NA. But with business, you can, but it is expensive but I don't have the details".
(Roger) We should find out. If the 10 minute blocks build on one another.
(Brent) We can also send Shirley the hands free headset to use.
(Nancy) Roger, Shirley says for another 10 minutes, just another $.35
(Nancy) I have, as an ATT plan, a very good international rate with ATT, $.33/ minute and $.7 continental, I think. Maybe we could get a "plan".
(Roger) Good. I move that we move the 800 number to Shirley's residence and select the business 800 option.
(Shaul) I second the motion
(Brent) All in favor, vote yes, opposed, no
(Roger) I further move that we obtain the block calling option ($.35/10 min. etc.)
(Nancy) Shirley and Nancy vote yes.
(Barry) 2nd Roger's motion
(Jan) Yes (including the $.35 option)
(Barry) Yes to initial
(Brent) The motion carries.
(Roger) Brent, did that include my second part?
(Shaul) Sure, why not
(Brent) Yes, Roger
(Nancy) Roger, your full motion was out there before most of us voted. Think it's OK.
(Brent) All agreed?
(Jurian) Yes :P
(Brent) I vote yes to Rogers addendium
(Barry) I think Sol disagreed :)
(Shaul) No no!
(Barry) Sorry, guess this isn't #Troubled_Times
(Brent) Moving on to Item 7: Web hosting disbursment to Nancy
(Jurian) None here
(Shaul) None, that sum must be paid
(Mary) I submit we vote on the item as stated in the agenda.
(Barry) W/O web-hosting, we are pretty much dead
(Brent) Ok, lets vote then, all in favor vote yes, opposed, no
(Shaul) You got it!
(Jurian) Yes !
(Roger) I move to approve Nancy's request for web-hosting funds as outlined in the agenda
(Nancy) Thanks guys, as the half-year is half past (3 months of the 6) and we will probably NOT have a T1 line or alternate hosting before June.
(Nancy) Shirley says yes, Nancy abstains :-)
(Brent) The motion carries, and great work Nancy! :-)
(Nancy) Thankie, thankie, thankie :-)
(Jan) Great work Nancy!
(Toni) We all love the website or we wouldn't be here.
(Barry) Dang ex-lawyers
(Brent) hehehe... Moving on to Item 8: Rogers Seed Savers Exchange letter
(Roger) Well, it is pretty cool after all.
(Nancy) Well, the content is from you'all, you know, thanks to YOU! I just package the content.
(Nancy) Very professional letter, Roger!
(Jurian) Hehe.. that's not "JUST" packaging tho. Its LOADS of work, "just" doesn't do it justice.
(Toni) I really like the letter, Roger
(Brent) Thats right, Nancy pulls it all together for us!
(Nancy) What do they do, today, with seed too old, aging seed? Arc basically gives it away for $25, postage, etc.
(Barry) Question for you Rog - never mind....
(Nancy) Someone at work told that they spouted 25 year old bung seeds, for sprouts, no problem!
(Shaul) It's a pro letter, Roger, and should get some response for sure
(Brent) I like the letter too.
(Roger) Thanks all. It really twernt nothing. Just a moment of thought...
(Toni) It could be a wonderful source for us. They have so many tried and true varieties.
(Roger) All they really want/need is a name and address and a formal request, so we should definitely get something.
(Brent) I say we send the letter, see what happens.
(Roger) Our status as a non-profit gives us a certain priority.
(Mary) Would it help if several of us request the seeds and if we get them forward them to TT?
(Barry) Yes, I was quite excited by what they had.
(Shaul) How bad is "aging" seed? (don't know anything about it, sorry)
(Barry) And how old is it anyways?
(Toni) At this point, half of our seed is 'aging' :-)
(Roger) They usually only give to schools, etc. for the purpose of education. The seed is either surplus or aged and germination is not guaranteed.
(Jan) Professional letter. Send it and see what happens, as Brent says.
(Roger) Cool, I will print it and send it out tomorrow!
(Toni) Thank you Roger!
(Roger) Aged means germination has likely dropped to around 50% or less.
(Shaul) Jolly good show, old sport
(Brent) Mabe we will have a response from them by next meeting.
(Roger) Hehe, thanks pal.
(Nancy) I estimate, Mary, that I should send you a $697, or $700 check, prepaid costs. And will do so.
(Nancy) Shirley says "Did we discuss the answering machine?"
(Barry) Silly question - if we germinate aged seed, then get seed from that stock, does that make the new seed "non aged"?
(Brent) Roger: you'll let us know next meeting about any response?
(Shaul) It's the new old seed
(Roger) Of course!
(Mary) Nancy, you have my address?
(Toni) Yes, Barry, the seed will be new and viable.
(Brent) Ok :-)
(Nancy) Shirley needs this as if I send her the nonprofit conference phone (not currently used, here) for hands free conversations, then this does not have an answering machine. Digital only available for sale."
(Barry) That's what I thought. Then this is pretty much a "no-brainer" letter!
(Mary) I don't remember the answering machine .
(Brent) Nancy: will we send Shirley the answering machine?
(Nancy) Shirley says "Canadian, $69 or $64, just over $40 American $".
(Shaul) Right, we didn't discuss this.
(Nancy) I think Shirley should just go ahead, as there may be other unknows minor costs associated, and we can approve this as a block later.
(Mary) Could we allocate $50 US for an answering Machine for Shirley?
(Roger) So, do we send the machine we have or purchase another one?
(Shaul) But she says that she can't use the one we have, no?
(Nancy) Brent, I'm going to ship the conference phone, a nonprofit asset ($80) which is unused here. She needs an answering machine, though.
(Jan) Friends, I don't think the Board should be concerned about $50 for a new answering machine or whether Nancy should send the one she has, that is operational details.
(Nancy) She cannot answer the phone all the time, etc. Must sleep :-)
(Brent) Hehehe, true.
(Shaul) I agree with Jan, we shouldn't have to vote on every single outlay.
(Brent) Jan's right, an answering machine is a small cost.
(Shaul) I guess I could make a good joke with that, but never mind.
(Mary) Still, we're here and we might as well vote on it!
(Nancy) The confernence phone is not an answering machine, not a combo. She can plug it into the answering machine. That's they way they are stung, my understanding. We do that here, in the house.
(Roger) Well, that is true. I merely did not know what the question was. I move that we approve Shirley's purchase of an answering machine!
(Mary) I second it.
(Brent) Ok, lets vote then. All in favor, yes, opposed, no
(Nancy) Nancy votes yes.
(Nancy) Shirley votes yes too.
(Brent) Hehehe the motion carries.
(Jan) I abstain, Expenses at this level should not be Board concerns.
(Shaul) You're absolutely right
(Barry) Well, I wasn't following the whole deal and didn't figure I should take up space trying to figure it all out
(Mary) Yes, but OFF SITE inventory needs to be documented.
(Shaul) I's just joshing ya, man. I understand.
(Jan) But now Shirley's home will be a TT site, right?
(Barry) OK Sparky.
(Mary) I don't know?
(Shaul) I don't think so, Jan. What's a TT site?
(Toni) Shirley, are you in Ontario?
(Brent) More like a TT Hub....
(Roger) I think it will be sort of an official site now with the 800 number there and all. Just as Mary's place with the publishing materials and all will soon be.
(Jan) I think a TT site is anywhere a TT activity is ongoing. Not necessarily public accessible, though.
(Nancy) Mary, I'm going to include all that you and Shirley are purchasing in the asset list, and assign numbers to these assets if large. The copier qualifies, and the phones too, probably.
(Toni) Hopefully not accessible!
(Nancy) This conference phone as a #19 on it :-)
(Nancy) Toni, yes, she's in Ontario.
(Toni) So close to me
(Shaul) I was just going to say that.
(Barry) Beat you :)
(Mary) Ok Nancy. E-mail me if you have questions.
(Nancy) Shirley says, "According to Bell, the business phone can just be installed, though they did start to ask who the President was, etc."
(Nancy) Shirley says "Yes, we are close"
(Shaul) It's Bush, no?
(Jan) Isn't that George W.? ;.)
(Jan) Beat me, you .....!
(Barry) I thought it was Al
(Barry) Oh, that's about 4 crises ago.....
(Shaul) Well it is, behind the scenes, you know
(Mary) Are we officially done?
(Brent) Shirley, if they need that info it's Ok, we are a public nonprofit
(Roger) Nah, turns out he didn't have enough votes afterall, even counting the ones on the floor!
(Shaul) Ladies and gentlemen, I place before you the motion to adjourn this meeting!
(Brent) Do I have a motion to adjourn the meeting?
(Roger) I second!
(Barry) Hey, would anybody like to hear about the community garden project?
(Brent) The meeting is adjourned.