September 24, 2000
(Brent) Well, present are Shaul, Ron, Roger, Gerard, Nancy (with Shirly on phone), Jurian and Brent.As we have a very full agenda, I will call the meeting to order.
(Nancy) Toni is Toni Simpson, our East Caost seed hub, Pat Ard is a board member who has a dying husband and has not been around for 6 months or more ..
(Shaul) ah, I see.
(Shaul) So we have a non-director present?
(Shaul) (not that I object or anything, and certainly not to Toni!!!)
(Brent) Yes, Shaul
(Brent) I would please remind any visitors, that they are observers only, unless called upon for comments.
(Brent) As we have a Quarum, the meeting will come to order.
(Brent) Item 1. The Minutes of the last meeting, is there any discussion?
(Shaul) not from here
(Jurian) none here
(Brent) The minutes are then ratified as correct.
(Nancy) Not from Shirley or I.
(Brent) Item 2. Email votecall results. This email votecall passed fully, and is there any discussion?
(Nancy) Yes, I have an appointment with Wegner LLP to be our bookkeepers.
(Brent) Very good, this is next week?
(Nancy) Per the Bylaws, we are supposed to have a "bookkeeper" when any donoration is more than $5,000 for a project.
(Ron) Nancy, when do you plan to set up the 800 number and new PO box?
(Nancy) Since Ron was such an excellent bookkeeper, we did not pay someone to do this, or see the need.
(Nancy) However, Ron was unable to install Quickbooks 2000 on any of my computers, and this is a hardware lack (not enought something or other) and I would have to upgrade to do my own bookkeeping.
(Nancy) In addition, this would take my time, and I'm also not familiar with Quickbooks or accounting details.
(Shaul) so, the Solution is to hire the mentioned firm?
(Nancy) So, unless there is an objection, I will hire Wegner LLP, our CPA firm (who in any case would be doing an audit if we go over $100,000 in donations, which we well might, this year).
(Brent) Aren't they already somewhat affiliated with the Nonprofit, Nancy?
(Shaul) and how much would their additional services cost?
(Nancy) They have proved to be very reasonable, $100 for some couple hours spent with Ron last January, reviewing his Quickbook account setup, and $47.50 for a half hour with the CPA re Public Benefit vs Private foundation questions.
(Shaul) that's VERY reasonable!
(Brent) Yes, very.
(Nancy) I estimate a couple hours or less per quarter, to update the Quickbooks and gen out the Balance Sheet. I will write checks and keep recipts in order, etc.
(Shaul) sounds OK
(Nancy) Brent, yes, next week on Tuesday.
(Nancy) Ron, I did not get the 800 number or PO yet, when I give my report on the TV documentary, they are behind schedule and it will not be for a month, my guess, before this would be needed.
(Nancy) Brent, Wegner LLP is the CPA firm we have been using since the start of the year, yes.
(Brent) OK, as I read the motions list for this item, there was no motion made to hire Wegner. Shall we do that now, or wait for Nancy's meeting on Tuesday?
(Shaul) we can save time and do it now, if the meeting goes ok...
(Shaul) Nancy can just hire them on the spot without taking extra time
(Brent) Your thoughts, Nancy?
(Shaul) I'd like to know, are we all in agreement that this is a reliable firm?
(Shaul) people that have worked with them - Nancy, Ron, what do you say about them in general?
(Ron) I think they are.
(Nancy) Brent, I think this could be handled via e-mail vote, if you wish. I will have specifics on Tuesday or later re cost. If you want to clear this up now, give me a cost limit, etc. for the approval!
(Nancy) I move that Wegner LLP be approved as the bookkeepers, using Quickbooks 2000 (as they do), with a limit of $150/quarter in costs.
(Shaul) that sounds very reasonable, and I second that motion
(Ron) I second the motion
(Nancy) Shaul, they have multiple offices in Madison and the like, and are a CPA firm of good repute, recommended by others in the field here, etc.
(Brent) A motion has been made & 2nd to hire Wegner LLP for their services, all in favor vote yes, opposed, no
(Nancy) Yes from Nancy, and Yes from Shirley.
(Brent) The motion passes. If there are expense changes, Nancy, we can discuss that later.
(Shaul) sounds good
(Brent) Or email vote if necessary
(Brent) Item 3 Phone Team Discussion: 800 number, and message service. Comments?
(Gerard) not from me
(Jurian) none here either
(Shaul) will the answers be done only by telephone or by e-mail as well?
(Shaul) (because if I can answer with e-mail, then I can also volunteer for this)
(Nancy) Yes, I don't have any cost figures as yet, thought this has been approved by the Board, but will have them in a couple weeks, I think.
(Ron) I think the idea is good, however, my participation depends upon agenda item 6 as I cannot use my daughters phone for this purpose.
(Shaul) that's perfectly understandable, Ron
(Nancy) My concern is just how we are going to distribute phone answering among the team. By region? Subject? By option (as in "I'll take this one", or what?
(Brent) No problem Ron, we'll get to that :-)
(Shaul) Nancy - the people who volunteer for this will have to discuss this amongst themselves and decide
(Ron) I agree ... discussion amoungst themselves.
(Nancy) As the person who will be entering into e-mail, my thinking is that there should at a minimum be a checkoff, so that all message get answered, for sure. We would also, for cost sake, want to avoid having someone get answered by the whole team, etc.
(Shaul) So the team will let Nancy know on what basis the messages are to be distributed among its members
(Nancy) When we approve the 800 and PO costs, we should consider approving payment of long distance costs for the team, etc.
(Nancy) Setup an account, perhaps.
(Shaul) That will surely be a must, if people start paying with their own money for long-distance calls...
(Nancy) Shaul, sounds good. Shirley says, sounds like a plan.
(Brent) I agree...
(Shaul) but what about my question on answering with e-mail?
(Nancy) Shaul, do you think that the answering service should ask that question?
(Shaul) which one?
(Roger) That would require that the callers leave their email address.
(Shaul) that's right, Roger. It may be too much to ask.
(Shaul) but those that have them - why not answer with an e-mail?
(Jurian) yes, and mind you, that'll be prone to errors unless they SPELL their email addy
(Roger) I don't think it's too much to ask, only that not all callers will have an email address.
(Shaul) right, right.
(Shaul) that's what I meant
(Nancy) In the TV documenatary, they reference zetatalk.com at the end, and Troubled Times at the top of the screen, for 4 mintues. So, if someone has web access, they will be going there, and the contact WOULD be via e-mail.
(Nancy) If they call, they want to talk to someone!
(Nancy) Shirley feels this to be the case.
(Shaul) that's true. a human voice...
(Shaul) it's not like an impersonal e-mail.
(Roger) that was my thinking as well...voice of calm...
(Shaul) what, us? hehehehe...
(Jurian) heh, how about something like "if you dont mind email, press one, otherwise press two" ? :)
(Shaul) that's too much like a bank...
(Jurian) maybe, but I know I prefer email to voice.. and surely there are others
(Shaul) well, that's 'cause you don't want anybody to hear just how raspy you sound!
(Nancy) We're dealing with panic here, earth shaking changes! They don't need the run-around. Our answering service should maybe even be prepped for panic calls.
(Shaul) (just kidding, Jurian. sorry...)
(Jurian) no problem :)
(Shaul) You're right, Nancy, of course.
(Gerard) it's easier for some to write an email then to phone someone
(Shaul) I think so too, Gerard. Many are too shy to speak to an actual person, even on the phone...
(Brent) I think both possabilities exist, mabe send the emails to Shaul?
(Jurian) heh, sounds familiar
(Nancy) In fact, I think that reassuring folks that they will get a call back "in a day or so at the latest" is something we should add to the answering service response. I will flow chart the response for review on tt-inc re this.
(Shaul) is that what you were asking when you said "what should the message be"?
(Brent) Excellent, Nancy
(Ron) I suspect that some of the return calls will be quite long.
(Shaul) Brent - yes, I could handle the e-mails, until the 'flood' of them comes at least
(Brent) Yes, Shaul, we will need and option for that
(Shaul) Ron - and that's why we should surely reimburse people for making the long calls.
(Nancy) Yes! Today, I am the contact on the home page. I'd be happy to have Shaul, who has become our recruiter, to handle this! Does this need a vote, or simply a change on the web?
(Shaul) I don't need a vote. I could just do it.
(Ron) just change the web
(Shaul) whew! I'll just see if I can handle it...
(Brent) We may have to vote on him being recruiter later...Or now, if the board prefers
(Nancy) Shaul, the activity is very low, todate!
(Shaul) well, that's part of the agenda anyway, the whole membership commitee business...
(Shaul) Yeah, it's pretty low, I'll ask a question in a second, when we move to that item
(Brent) True, so mabe we should move along....
(Shaul) I agree
(Brent) So, before the next meeting, Nancy will have gathered all info and flow chart the 800 number response.
(Brent) Alos, find out costs...
(Brent) Item 4 nancy's reimbursement for web Wrapping, a motion was made and 2nd, but we need a vote
(Shaul) I say 'yes'
(Brent) All in favor say yes, opposed no
(Shaul) sorry. yes
(Brent) The motion passes for 1,000 reimbursment to Nancy for her services.
(Brent) And I'd like to say, what a great job she does! :-)
(Shaul) (smiles and handshakes all around!!!)
(Nancy) Shirley says Yes, I abstain.
(Shaul) hear hear!
(Brent) Item 5 Jan as Internal Auditor, any discussion before the vote?
(Gerard) oops yes
(Gerard) from me
(Brent) OK, Questions, Gerard, Shaul?
(Shaul) (Gerard is writing it now, I guess...)
(Gerard) the yes was vor the vote....
(Shaul) ah, sorry!
(Nancy) I would like to say that the fact that Jan and I have been at odds with each other is, in my view, a plus! Notbody in bed with each other there.
(Nancy) I will, if this is approved, copy all paperwork and sent this snail mail to Jan, so he has the full picture.
(Shaul) I have nothing to say myself, I said 'please' because I thought Gerard wanted to say something!
(Brent) Good point Nancy. excellent check and balance!
(Shaul) I agree with Nancy, and I'm all for Jan as IA
(Nancy) Wegner LLP can gen the quartely reports in hypertext, and also any other reports Jan requires, and I will likewise snail mail them to him.
(Roger) Jan is still a member of the Inc. Would he be expected to attend meetings and give reports with this appointment?
(Nancy) I welcome his expertise, in my experience I have never failed to gain from an audit, always learning something, and he is well qualified to be that double check!
(Brent) OK, then all in favor of Jan becomeing IA say yes, opposed, No
(Nancy) Yes from Nancy, and Yes from Shirley.
(Shaul) about what Roger asked - I would think that he would need to attend meetings whenever a report is warranted, not every meeting.
(Brent) The motion passes, Jan is the new IA
(Brent) Agreed, Shaul
(Brent) Item 6 Cell Phone for Ron conducting nonprofit business, Discussion?
(Ron) My initial estimate of cost was WAY off.
(Roger) how much Ron?
(Shaul) I think the figures given are very low and well within our ability to pay.
(Shaul) ah, so what is the current estimate?
(Roger) Actually I was thinking the given figures were high!
(Shaul) ah, really? I guess I don't know prices in the US!
(Brent) So it's cheaper?
(Ron) The phone itself would be from $150 min to a max of $315
(Roger) Which carrier are you considering?
(Shaul) sure, the more complex phones run higher. It's better to have a good one, there'll be an internet connection through it soon...
(Shaul) so they promise
(Jurian) there already is.. WAP
(Brent) My service, Verison, offers a free phone with sign up. Anything like that in Texas?
(Roger) Around here, most of them don't charge for the phone, or if they do, it's well discounted.
(Shaul) ah, right right, Jurian. just not every carrier offers it, I guess..
(Jurian) Right Shaul :-)
(Ron) The monthly plan which is the best in the Austin area (Sprint PCS) is $50 a month for 500 anytime minutes and 500 after 8pm and weekend minutes.
(Shaul) and after that?
(Nancy) My understanding is that this cell phone service that Ron is considering has free long distance for the 1,000 minutes, correct Ron?
(Roger) That's a good enough plan, but why the high phone cost?
(Ron) There are a couple other plans but aren't as good.
(Nancy) If so, then as part of the phone team, this might well pay for itself big time!
(Shaul) that's what it sounds like, sure
(Ron) Also the sprint minutes are toll free anywhere in the US
(Brent) Which phone are you looking at, Ron?
(Roger) You can use 1000 minutes in a hurry considering airtime is the moment the phone is on, etc.
(Ron) Sprint PCS Touchpoint 2200
(Shaul) well, 1000 minutes is almost 20 hours...
(Brent) How much for the Touchpoint 2200?
(Ron) I still need to talk to some folks about the best phone ... I don't really need much more than dual band and also vibrator ring.
(Brent) hehehe, Shaul
(Roger) What all will this phone be used for?
(Ron) brent, $314.96
(Shaul) still, it's affordable...
(Shaul) or no?
(Roger) what will it be used for?
(Ron) In any case, it will be an Inc. asset
(Brent) Roger... noprofit business, 800 number response calls, etc.
(Shaul) that's the important thing. And YOU will be responsible for it!
(Shaul) (that was for what Ron said...)
(Shaul) meaning - he'll be responsible for the Inc property, the phone
(Roger) Will the bill be sent to HQ?
(Shaul) good question
(Roger) Or will Ron take care of it and be reimbursed?
(Ron) Roger, two things ... 800 number response and also working with PI's on projects. I've found that the phone works much better than email on project details at times.
(Shaul) I would think that this is absolutely correct
(Ron) I would take care of it and be reimbursed
(Shaul) sounds very reasonable.
(Roger) We need a $315 phone to respond to 800 number calls and work with PI's?
(Nancy) Ron, could you break down the vibrator cost, the dual band cost, etc? Is the dual band to allows greater access or what? I understand the vibrator is so you can take a job and still take a call from the nonprofit, etc.
(Ron) But, I need a commitment from the Inc to me for 1 year because in order to get the free extra 500 minutes I have to commit to a 1 year contract.
(Shaul) yes, the vibrato-ring is very good for places where you have to stay quiet with those rings, or where you can't hear them
(Roger) There are less expensive phones with vibration ring.
(Brent) I would think this would be something that would be automatic, (the reimbursement), and not have to be brought before the board.
(Shaul) You're right, Roger, there's probably less expensive phones that have these features.
(Ron) Brent, I would like for it to be automatic.
(Brent) makes sense to me Ron
(Nancy) Brent, I think what Ron is asking for is an account to be setup (this is my thought, actually) for the $35/mo for 12 months, guaranteed, as this is a guarantee RON would have to make, etc.
(Shaul) But Ron has probably researched this already - and knows the prices.
(Roger) Yeah, automatic would work, but what about when the usage goes over the 1000 minute limit?
(Ron) Like I said, I feel I can get a less expensive phone but if we approve this, then when I find a much less expensive one I don't have to come back and ask.
(Shaul) I don't know if we need a special account for that, Nancy.
(Brent) I agree, Nancy, do we need to vote on this? setting up the acount?
(Nancy) Shirley says "I've never seen a phone that expensive. We've have one for $250, max."
(Shaul) We can just make a commitment to pay the required sum
(Shaul) (that's about the account)
(Roger) What are we paying?
(Brent) I agree Shaul
(Brent) 35 Mo, Roger
(Roger) But the plan Ron mentioned was 50/month
(Ron) NO, $50 per month for the 1000 minutes
(Shaul) So, I think we should set some sort of a price limit for this phone right now, to give Ron some leeway when buying the actual phone
(Brent) thats, $35.00 per Month for the service
(Nancy) Maybe we should see the phone cost options, before approving the phone. Both Roger and Shirley are questioning the cost.
(Nancy) Oh, sorry. So this would be a committed $600 in an account to cover this cell phone.
(Ron) No, Brent that's 50 per month for the service
(Roger) I am also concerned about going over the 1000 minute limit and having unforeseen costs.
(Brent) OK, sorry Ron
(Shaul) that's a very valid concern, Roger.
(Roger) Ron, can the billing be set up to the Inc.?
(Shaul) What would be the purpose of that, Roger?
(Brent) Ron, do you have phone cost options as Nancy mentioned?
(Nancy) Ron is VERY expert in talking about a multiple of subjects, understands the survival aspects, understands the nonprofit goals, and has a calm, clear way of talking to folks.
(Brent) Or do you need to get them?
(Ron) It would be difficult ... I've tried this before and had problems. It's just as easy to scan an invoice and send to Nancy.
(Nancy) I think he would be IDEAL to answer those problem calls. In fact, the more panic'd the person, the more Ron calms and explains in clear terms.
(Shaul) That would surely seem to be the case, Nancy!
(Nancy) I think this long distance service would pay for itself in long distance charges, in this way.
(Nancy) Ron, what about International? This is not covered, correct?
(Shaul) Oh, for sure we need the service, and it's great that Ron is doing it!
(Shaul) The question right now is the cost of the telephone itself, right?
(Shaul) so we're basically arguing about 200 dollars. It's still a valid sum to talk about
(Ron) Nancy, international would add a toll cost.
(Roger) When you go over the 1000 minutes, and you will, if the bill is coming to the Inc., you won't have to explain why the cost is no longer $50.
(Brent) Yes, we all agree on the service, just questioning the phone costs
(Shaul) Int's calls are very expensive... would need extra money for that.
(Jurian) we dont want to get a cheap one.. they're annoying for using more then a few minutes.. we do want a good one.. and they are expensive
(Shaul) (I meant 'international')
(Shaul) I agree, Jurian.
(Roger) Do we have a limitless budget are do we need to be economical here?
(Jurian) why not use a landline for international calls? they're WAY cheaper
(Shaul) Absolutely, Roger.
(Ron) Also, each minute over the 1000 is $0.35
(Gerard) Yes, Jurian i think so too ..
(Shaul) We need to be economical, and that's why I said that it's perfectly legitimate to be discussing this at length
(Ron) correction $0.30
(Shaul) I just wanted to give 'focus'
(Brent) Jurian, Ron can't use his Daughters land line for nonprotit Business.
(Roger) I see and completely agree with the need for Ron to be connected. I am concerned about the cost involved.
(Nancy) Jurian, I would volunteer to make the long distance calls, if necessary, as I have a 33 cent/min plan with ATT.
(Jurian) ANY landline, I dont know how much it costs to get one there, but I think it'd be cheaper that using a cellphone for sure
(Jurian) heh, guess that'd work as well
(Shaul) Whatever sum Ron pays for the monthly use, the Inc will have to refund
(Nancy) Why not give Ron a "limit" on the phone cost, approving this, and if it goes over, an e-mail vote with specifics on why the overage, etc.
(Jurian) but then again, is that ok with those MJ12 people? you doign the calls? cause there will be more and more..
(Nancy) This would allow us to move forward.
(Shaul) The invoice will be sent to the Inc., and if the sum is over 50 dollars a month - we'll want to know why before it's approved
(Nancy) We could also limit his calls, over 1,000 minutes, if we feel the need here.
(Nancy) Limit = guidelines, etc.
(Shaul) I agree with everything Nancy says, but I think that Jurian has posed a valid question about the MJ12
(Roger) I am confused as to why it is suddenly only Ron that will be returning 800 number calls.
(Shaul) oh no, Roger. The phone is so he can act as Project Manager, mostly
(Shaul) so I thought
(Shaul) and in addition - he's also volunteered to take some of the 800 number calls
(Brent) He's not Roger, He also needs it for PM and PI business
(Roger) That's what I thought too. I don't think it will take 1000 minutes a month and a $315 phone to do this.
(Shaul) make us another offer, Roger.
(Shaul) do you know actual prices?
(Shaul) then we can move along.
(Brent) Yes, Roger, Shirley, Cost limits?
(Roger) No, only what Ron has told us and he hasn't given us any options, only X and X, not any choices.
(Nancy) Re MJ12, I don't think there will be a concern with my being, on occasion, part of the answering team.
(Shaul) fine, if you think so, Nancy.
(Shaul) as long as they're not bothering you, we'll be fine
(Brent) OK, Nancy
(Jurian) heh, I dont know them, as far as I'm aware of anyway, so can't really judge that :)
(Shaul) that's exactly what I say...
(Brent) If this changes let us know Nancy
(Shaul) oh, by all means, absolutely do the minute something changes in this regard.
(Brent) are we entertaining a cost limit for the phone?
(Shaul) (I hope Roger's typing away...)
(Roger) Handling some of the 800 calls will certainly increase the usage of the phone and I personally don't have a problem with the 1000 minute plan.
(Jurian) I don't really know what phones cost in the USA, but surely it wont have to be a super hitech one.. as in, no WAP sh*t and that kind of stuff
(Shaul) what about the price of the phone, Roger?
(Roger) But what about overages?
(Brent) We'r only concerned about the PHONE cost, roger
(Shaul) we can agree right now that we're not paying for one minute over the 1000 limit.
(Shaul) This can be changed later, if we see that this limit is not enough.
(Roger) Well at 30 cents a minute, I hope we don't have to change that limit.
(Nancy) I move that Ron be approved to get a cell phone service for $50/month to cover 1,000 min/mo free long distance calls. That this phone NOT be used for international calls, and NO calls be made over the 1,000 limit. $600/year guaranteed to be paid for this service. $200 limit on the phone unless approved by the Board.
(Roger) But do we need a Phonetalk 2200?
(Shaul) Before I second Nancy's motion: is $200 enough for the phone, Ron?
(Ron) Yes, it probably is.
(Shaul) I second Nancy's motion\
(Shaul) for the approval of the phone with the stated sums
(Brent) A motion has been made & 2nd all in favor say yes, opposed, no
(Nancy) Yes from Nancy, Yes from Shirley.
(Brent) The motion passes.
(Shaul) Before we go on - is it absolutely sure that for another 50 bucks we won't get a much better phone?
(Shaul) because we may as well get a good one, as Jurian said
(Roger) Do we need a better phone?
(Shaul) I'm just asking
(Jurian) we need one that wont get uncomfortable after 2 minutes
(Ron) I think we can get a good enough one for $200 or less
(Shaul) That's good, Ron. Then we can move on
(Nancy) Shaul, Ron can come back and detail the phones and what one gets, etc. The door is not close on this, to him.
(Roger) My Nokia 918p serves quite well!
(Shaul) I just was wondering if the limit's not too low, but Ron says no, so it's good
(Roger) And it only cost me $10
(Shaul) send some over here!
(Brent) OK, moving right along, Item 7 New member process: do we need any discussion on this item?
(Ron) I am talking about normal rates and plans ... I am looking for a promotional thing ... there they sometimes even give a really good phone away with the plan.
(Shaul) I wanted to ask this: are we still looking at the '1000 membe' model?
(Shaul) (Ron - I think that's exactly what Roger had in mind)
(Shaul) So - the 1000 member model. Is it still 'on'?
(Ron) I haven't seen anything that would change the 1000 member model maybe 10000
(Shaul) I was just wondering if anyone wants to place a limit. I'm not for a limit, myself
(Shaul) We should try to get as many people as we can, right?
(Brent) Me either
(Brent) I agree Shaul
(Shaul) I mean, 'good' people, who fit the criteria, of course.
(Shaul) We can handle all my other questions as part of the membership committee.
(Nancy) Shaul, the 1,000 member model for the mailing lists has worked well so far, and I think we're at about 400-500 folks right now, total.
(Shaul) No, I was talking about 1000 members on the Inc!
(Shaul) On the greater tt-mail lists - of course we can have that many
(Shaul) but the Corporation - I just want to know how 'hard' you want me to recruit, that's all.
(Gerard) for what I know the 1000 member model was meant for Troubled Times, not for the Inc.?
(Ron) It would be wonderful to have 1000 folks who contribute enough to qualify to join the Inc.
(Brent) indeed, Ron!
(Shaul) Right, right. We're not gonna have that many, but are we ready for, like 100 new people?
(Ron) why not?
(Shaul) because if we are - I can get right on it.
(Shaul) so ok, I'll get on it.
(Ron) Go for it!
(Shaul) I understand that I can just go over the list which Nancy sent, and start polling the folks, right?
(Shaul) Now, about the 'membership committee' - who wants to be on it, in addition to Nancy and myself? (I can coordinate it, for sure)
(Ron) Shaul, we don't accept folks into the Inc. just because they say they want to join. There are qualifications based upon contribution.
(Shaul) or should I poll the Inc membership to see if we get two or three others?
(Shaul) Ron - oh, of course. As I said, only those that fit the criteria.
(Brent) I'll volunteer, Shaul
(Shaul) Nancy's published a list on the tt-inc of folks she'd polled in the past, and I was talking about those.
(Shaul) That's great, Brent!
(Shaul) You're gonna be a busy man...
(Brent) hehehe, what else is new! :-)
(Shaul) I have nothing further before the vote
(Nancy) I think the route in, is that folks join the tt-forum or other mailing list, and as we cross post inc activity, they get interested an offer. Then they have contributed (or when they have) they can get solicited for membership, are eligible.
(Shaul) I agree, Nancy.
(Shaul) And maybe make this also clearer on the TT website,
(Nancy) I note that a few months ago when Ron posted about looking for PI's on the tt-forum, that several new contributing members evolved from this. We need to cross post to the working lists like tt-forum, in future too.
(Shaul) that there's a corporation that people who contribute can join, so they can contribute even more, and also feel 'a part' of what's happening
(Brent) OK, so now we need a vote on the new member process, the membership committee, and the wording change to the bylaws, Section2, Article 8. All in favor say yes, opposed, no.
(Nancy) Shaul, as unoffical recruiter, what changes on the web site would you recommend? I am already planning to add a new Icon in Teams, for the nonprofit, and a menu link from the hub page to the nonprofit.
(Shaul) this is for the vote: 'yes'
(Shaul) Nancy - i'll write to you later
(Nancy) Yes from Nancy, Yes from Shirley.
(Brent) The motion passes
(Brent) Item 8 TV Documentary, report from Nancy
(Shaul) I will mail the two other members of this membership committee later tonight with some thoughts and suggestions
(Shaul) (that was for the ending of the last item. sorry)
(Brent) OK, Shaul :-)
(Brent) I'm sure Nancy is furiously typing now.....
(Shaul) ah, television... the lights... the action...
(Nancy) I polled both Robert & Arsam and Jason Martell on status.
(Nancy) They are all running a bit behind, which is normal for voluteer effort of this type.
(Shaul) sure, sure
(Brent) of course
(Nancy) Still, Jason has created animations of the passage of the 12th Planet, as we agreed during our conferences, and recorded on BetaCAM his personal interview portion.
(Nancy) This portion was to address the passage, NOT the giant hominoids and all.
(Shaul) that's excellent.
(Brent) very good
(Shaul) the 'giant hominoids' issue is way too controversial
(Brent) I agree
(Shaul) but 'the passage' is what's immediately in store for us all
(Nancy) The guys in Tarzanian also will be editing film taken here, and creating animations. This is a bit behind schedule, but my hunch is that in 3-4 weeks we should have a draft to review.
(Shaul) what's 'Tarzanian'?
(Nancy) Now, this was not paid for by nonprofit funds, but by the folks working on it. The nonprofit gets the benefit of this exposure, as Geson's clip and other mention of TT Inc are within the 30 minutes.
(Jurian) Shaul: Janeian's neighbour I guess :)
(Nancy) So, technically, an approval by the Board is not required to go showtime! Right?
(Shaul) right, right!
(Shaul) (he, jur...)
(Brent) True, Nancy
(Ron) Hum ...
(Nancy) Tarzania, CAL, near LA and Hollywood.
(Ron) The Inc. ownes the 4 minute clip ...
(Shaul) Who is the new comer?
(Ron) so use of it must be approved.
(Shaul) please, before we move on
(Ron) my opinion
(Shaul) Dark Victory?
(Jurian) Just someone who's interested in zt/tt, wants to watch
(Shaul) yoo hooo.....
(Shaul) I don't think we should have any 'watchers' here.
(Nancy) But, we state in the Operations portion of the home page, that we give Geson's clip to anyone, for free, if they will show it to others, such as a garden club, etc.
(Shaul) Please, can this person be gotten rid of before we move on?
(Shaul) we're talking about private Board matters here!!!!
(Nancy) We make no restrictions. My only restriction on these folks was that they show Geson's clip INTACT, not chop it up as they wanted to do originally.
(Shaul) Please! WAIT!!!!!!!
(Jurian) Shaul: erm, the logs are on the web as well, so why not allow them to watch here?
(Shaul) is everyone in agreement with Jurian here?
(Nancy) Shaul, technically, we're an open board meeting, as a nonprofit.
(Ron) as long as there is no disruption
(Shaul) Ok, ok. I just like to see order, that's all.
(Jurian) he can't talk, channel is +m (moderated)
(Shaul) sorry if that was an over reaction or something. Nothing against anybody with a name like 'Dark Victory' or anything...
(Roger) Well, Toni is not a member of the board, but she is sitting in, so why not allow this newcomer? Jurian, would you introduce him?
(Brent) This is an official Board Meeting. As long as he understands not to comment
(Nancy) I think this person should leave, be booted, and be directed to the web site instead.
(Shaul) I agree, Nancy!
(Roger) Is this person a member of the Inc.?
(Brent) Is he a member of TT at all?
(Shaul) good question, Roger. If this person wants to learn about the ZT - then there's the mail-lists, the tt-welcome, and the chat
(Roger) Then he shouldn't be here.
(Shaul) Ah, thanks, Ron. Now we can move on, let's finish the Agenda, and I already have a point of order to make at the end!
(Nancy) Roger, I think members are differnt. Dark Victory should go.
(Roger) Toni is here as a guest, but also as a member of the Inc.
(Jurian) what's wrong with watching something that'll be on the web anyway?? maybe I'm missing something, but I dont see why he has to leave
(Brent) I agree, and Toni is welcome
(Nancy) Heavens! we don't want to take board time being introduced to a stranger! Come now!
(Shaul) Jurian - can I have that person's e-mail so I can answer the question he asked me before he was kicked off?
(Shaul) Nancy's right, Jurian. It was not a good idea on your part to invite him.
(Jurian) and sorry if I was out of line here
(Jurian) just thought it was ok for people to watch
(Jurian) as long as they didn't talk
(Shaul) ok, let's talk about this at the end, now that it's become an issue, but we have to finish the agenda first!
(Roger) suggest he attend a chat session on the other channel if he's curious...
(Shaul) that's right, Roger.
(Brent) OK people, we have to move on...Item 9 Budget modifications Discussion?
(Nancy) Jurian, this is a disruption, as noted we've talked only about this Dark Victory person, not our business. THAT is why he should not be welcomed, etc. or this repeated.
(Jurian) like I said.. sorry, my mistake
(Brent) Invite him to a chat Shaul, that would be better....
(Brent) Lesson learned, Jurian! :-)
* Jurian hides in his corner
(Ron) About the budget ... what I see is that it should be modified as there is no longer planned to be salaried employees.
(Brent) Good point Ron
(Shaul) wait a minute, is this totally agreed upon by everyone?
(Nancy) Brent, I thing the budget should include B&O insurance, something that was always planned but no $3,000/yr available. This 2001 year, it should be included.
(Shaul) what's 'b&o' insurance?
(Nancy) I think that the outreach, the mailing of brochure and development of same, and getting the servers online, is prime.
(Ron) Board and officer insurance I think
(Nancy) This is at the heart of the nonprofit mission, to educate.
(Brent) I agree, Nancy this would be a necessity, my opinion.
(Shaul) thanks, Ron
(Nancy) Board & Officers, in case the nonprofit gets sued. Pretty normal and average stuff, actually.
(Brent) Very true.
(Shaul) I agree, absolutely
(Brent) It's $3,000?
(Brent) for the year?
(Ron) Because of the nature of the premise of TT Inc., in my opinion, there is increased risk of suit by individuals tramatized by the subject matter.
(Ron) I think $3000 is a good investment.
(Nancy) Correct, last time I estimated this. Maybe for us, less, as we do not run day care centers and have child molesters as employees or the like.
(Brent) Do you need to research new figures, Nancy?
(Nancy) Suits, per my reading, are almost entirely because of employees that do bad things, or being sued by one's employee (discrimination charges, etc.)
(Nancy) Brent, someone needs to research new figures, yes :-)
(Brent) Mabe it will be cheaper....
(Nancy) Whoever becomes the new Pres in January :-)
(Shaul) so we postpone this discussion until then?
(Brent) Ah, good point!
(Shaul) (on the issue of the b&o insurance, I mean)
(Brent) Seems applicable to me, considering it will be effective for 2001 only, correct?
(Nancy) Ron, does this happen with the newscaster? They announce the liklihood of a tornado and get sued because someone is upset at the possibility?
(Ron) The news business has much legal presidence protection. We are something new.
(Ron) There are many other sites such as ours, but they are not nearly so large and well known.
(Roger) Think of the Y2k scenario--executive quits his job, buys land and shelter and waits for a collapse of society based on the advice of a computer geek.
(Shaul) Yeah, but we get legal liability for that?
(Roger) Would he not have the right to sue the geek?
(Nancy) I personally think the budget should be much discussed on the tt-inc, with figures and suggestions, etc., as it SHOULD be a well digested subject before a January approval.
(Ron) Except it was the Government, so legal protection.
(Ron) I absolutely agree with Nancy.
(Roger) Right! We don't have that protection and someone out there might not like our story.
(Nancy) I will volunteer to put the current Budget on the tt-inc., as text, so the discussion can START.
(Brent) I agree with Nancy, this needs much more discussion on TT Inc before Januaty, agreed?
(Ron) Let's resume the discussion of budget for 2001 on tt-inc and move on.
(Roger) So we need the liability protection.
(Ron) Yes, Roger, I think so.
(Brent) I agree, Roger, the Insurance should be added to the Budget.
(Ron) Let's move it to tt-inc
(Shaul) ok, on with the 'land' proposition, right?
(Brent) I agree wuth Nancy's idea to post text on the List.
(Brent) No, Shaul...
(Shaul) yes, Nancy will post it, and we'll all discuss it on the inc.
(Shaul) why not, Brent?
(Shaul) (I meant with the discussion)
(Brent) Item 10, Streaming Video Review Committee
(Shaul) Ah, ok, sorry
(Brent) No problem :-)
(Jurian) right, one big question on this item.. any idea when the server(s) will be online, so I can start working on them?
(Nancy) All, the B&O should rightly have been purchased earlier, but 3K was always a big bite, so we deferred. Now we should be ready to get it, if/when the promised donations come in in Dec/Jan.
(Brent) I agree, Nancy, do you propose to add the item early?
(Ron) I would like to volunteer for the Streaming Video Committee as I will be working closely with the various projects.
(Nancy) Yes, in the next day or so.
(Brent) Acceptable, and then will be ready for a vote later
(Brent) Thanks for volunteering, Ron
(Nancy) I move than an Executive Committee be formed to address software and hardware component needed to get the UNIX servers online. This would cover streaming video/audio, editing software, routers, T1 lines, and other related matters.
(Brent) can't type very fast.....
(Ron) I will soon be talking to Nicholas who very well may have some very high dollar equipment/software to donate to the cause.
(Brent) Wonderful, Ron!
(Brent) Do we have a 2nd to Nancy's motion?
(Ron) I second Nancy's motion
(Brent) Vote to establish the executive committee discussed, all in favor say yes, opposed, no
(Nancy) Yes from Nancy, Yes from Shirley.
(Brent) Motion passes, the comittee is established. Who will head up the committee?
(Shaul) I nominate Ron, if he's not too busy already...
(Nancy) I've been muttering on the phone here with Shirley about what this EC should DO. As it is a Board arm, it should report to the board, later, right? Perhaps some guidelines as to time frame, like in 2 months hense, with options and recommendations.
(Nancy) Ron would be an excellent choice.
(Shaul) That sounds good. I move that the committee will have to report to the Board in bi-monthly intervals.
(Ron) How does the EC get staffed?
(Shaul) with guidelines to be established by the committee chairman together with the Inc President
(Shaul) I think you staff it with members of the Inc first, who want to volunteer
(Shaul) and if not enough are found - then from the greater tt lists
(Brent) All good points... We need 2nds, folks...
(Shaul) what do you say, Jurian?
(Shaul) on what?
(Shaul) (I know, just asking for clarification to all)
(Nancy) Per the Agenda, we have as volunteers Barry, Jurian, Michael, Morgan, Nancy, Ron, and I'm sure Ernie would be very much interested.
(Brent) on the motion to report bi monthly, and on Ron
(Shaul) ah, ok
(Roger) I second Shaul's motion that the committee report on a bi-montly basis
(Brent) Ron, are you up for this?
(Ron) Sure, I can give it a try.
(Nancy) I move that Ron be the chair for this EC.
(Shaul) (I think Ron should second that...)
(Nancy) Well, I second Shaul's motion (nomination).
(Shaul) good, but Ron still hadn't agreed...
(Roger) Hello Michel
(Shaul) hoi, Michel!
(Nancy) Ron, if you need some admin help, I volunteer. I realize you're not yet unpacked!
(Michel) hi everybody
(Ron) I agreed to something, but I'm not sure what (grin)
(Brent) Vote on the motions : the comittee will report to the board on progress bi-monthly, and Ron will head up the committee. all in favor, say yes, opposed, no
(Shaul) to your nomination to head the EC committee, Ron!
(Shaul) I vote 'yes' on both motions
(Brent) Thats Yes to both
(Nancy) Yes from Nancy, Yes from Shirley.
(Nancy) Ron, Jurian setup an eGroups for discussion, and this worked well.
(Brent) The motion passes. Congratulations, Ron!
(Brent) You have a lot of great help out there!
(Shaul) hear hear
(Ron) Thanks ... this is a good group ... I'll also set up an egroup.
(Brent) Item 11 President-At-large: Motions to elect a new one?
(Jurian) I can make you owner of tt-servers if you'd like Ron
(Shaul) On the issue of President:
(Ron) We need a connection to them first.
(Roger) I nominate Shaul for Pres next time.
(Shaul) I think that Brent has been doing an excellent job, offering a very clear and level-headed approach.
(Gerard) I forgot to vote so it seems earlier on ... so a yes from me
(Shaul) I move that Brent continues for another term...
(Shaul) thanks for the confidence, Roger,
(Shaul) But maybe I'm too much of a somewhat controversial figure?
(Ron) Brent, are you willing to serve another month?
(Brent) hehe, do you think it would be smoother than the last? :-)
(Gerard) I think Brent handled it well
(Ron) has to be!!!
(Shaul) hey, you're learning as you go along, man
(Brent) True, Ron!
(Roger) The whole idea of Pres-at-large was for all to get a chance to serve, if desired. It also gives all of us a chance to see different styles of leadership.
(Nancy) Shirley seconds Roger's Motion for Shaul as Pres-at-Large next month.
(Nancy) (I also second this :-)
(Brent) Roger has a good point
(Shaul) It's true. And yet the job fits Brent like a glove!
(Brent) But thanks for the confidence, all!
(Ron) I also second Shaul's nomination
(Roger) I too like Brent's style, but I think we need to experience Shaul...
(Shaul) I guess there'll be no getting away from it after all...
(Shaul) hehehehehe (Ron) let's vote
(Brent) All in favor of Shaul becomeing next President-at-large, say yes, opposed, no
(Nancy) I and Shirley agree with Roger!
(Nancy) We need variety, even though Brent was superb!
(Nancy) The idea is to give the membership a sense of who does what!
(Brent) Thanks, Nancy! Everyone!
(Nancy) Shaul will be used as a basis of comparison against Brent, or others.
(Ron) Fantastic job Brent!!
(Shaul) Great job, Brent!
(Shaul) and thanks everyone
(Nancy) In a way, Board members do a service if they serve a PaL if only by doing a crummy job, as this by comparison makes those doing a GOOD job, stand out!
(Brent) the motion passes, Congratulations, Shaul! :-)
(Roger) Thanks, Brent, and good luck Shaul!
(Nancy) Yes from Nancy, Yes form Shirley.
(Michel) congratulations Shaul
(Shaul) Thanks guys, I hope I don't disappoint you
(Jurian) you wont :-)
(Brent) You'll do well, Shaul!
(Gerard) you won't
(Brent) and thanks, Ron!
(Shaul) mercy beacoup
(Brent) OK, we have a few more items to discuss
(Shaul) I have one as well.
(Roger) Hold, I thought you were *******, Shaul (BG)
(Shaul) yes, I in fact am *******, that's right
(Brent) Ron would like to discuss Wendy's proposed Clothing Project
(Michel) ******* background right
(Shaul) what did you want to say, Roger?
(Roger) So that should have been in Hebrew, not French, right?!
(Shaul) ah, ok. Toda Raba!
(Roger) That's better, hehehe
(Ron) I didn't get a chance to put Wendy's proposal together, but it looks fantastic to me, do-able, and practically no cost.
(Brent) Could you explain the project?
(Ron) It would be a "how to make clothing of all sorts with a PS spin"
(Brent) WOW! How great!
(Shaul) that sounds like an excellent project, and Wendy's sure psyched about it...
(Gerard) sounds good
(Nancy) To date, we have had Board approval of getting projects ON the web site (per the Bylaws) and Board approval of funding (per the Bylaws) but minor changes do not require board approval. However, no objection after discussion is reassuring :-)
(Brent) Ron, will you put the proposal together for a vote next meeting?
(Brent) for funding?
(Ron) Nancy, I took a quick look at the projects page this morning and didn't see a clothing project. Did I just miss it?
(Shaul) wait, I thought Nancy said we didn't need a vote. Or is this, like, a 'big' project?
(Nancy) Yes, I'm sure it's there! Basically, what you stated!
(Brent) If its not on the projects list, we may need a vote
(Brent) Do we need a vote for funding, next meeting?
(Shaul) what do you say on this, Nancy?
(Ron) Ok, if it's already there then no vote needed at this time. Any funding can wait till next meeting.
(Roger) The agenda's exhausted and I really need to get some schoolwork done, so if there's no other need... I move to adjourn.
(Nancy) Ron, it's page 00 009 001.htm (00009001) as project 9 in 2000.
(Brent) Agreed... sounds like a great project
(Ron) thanks Nancy
(Brent) Roger, Shaul has one more item
(Shaul) OK, I'll present my discussion about the open meetings to the Inc membership
(Shaul) if that's ok with everyone
(Ron) I will go ahead and put together a project plan for the clothing project.
(Roger) It's okay with me.
(Shaul) I was going to say something about these meetings, how they should be open or close, or what.
(Nancy) States, as objectives: document gist of how to spin and weave, simple concepts, document gist of how to and tan skins, document gist of how to gather or extract fibers from various sources, use various 3rd World examples (photos and video clips)
(Shaul) that sounds great, Nancy.
(Shaul) now, to get back to what I said,
(Shaul) we had a small disruption here with an unexpected arrival of someone we've never heard of, who was privately invited by one of our members
(Shaul) when I first arrived tonight, I didn't know what Toni was doing here.
(Shaul) again, I don't object.
(Shaul) I just like order!
(Shaul) (sorry if that sounds like nitpicking)
(Brent) No, not nitpicking...but the problem has been solved, yes?
(Shaul) so I want to put together some guidelines, and now that I've been voted President, I think I'll do just that!
(Ron) Shaul, US law requires that Non-profits have open meetings.
(Nancy) Shaul, no need to appologize, as we get more media attention, we don't want to find ourselves unable to work because of these disruptions!
(Jurian) Ron: so why was he kicked?
(Shaul) Oh, I absolutely agree, Ron. But we still need some guidelines!
(Shaul) like, if you want to invite someone you tell us all - I want to invite this and that, OK?
(Jurian) it wouldn't have been a disruption if we had just continued. they CANNOT even speak unless we allow them to
(Shaul) otherwise we can't conduct busienss, with people coming in ana out all the time
(Ron) He was kicked to stop the disruption to the meeting.
(Shaul) Jurian - a disruption is anytime something unexpected happens!
(Shaul) People - think of this:
(Shaul) if we were having a meeting in a room.
(Nancy) Shirley says, "board meeting must be open to the membership, but do they need to be open to a disruptive public?"
(Ron) If a person can be allowed to watch but not talk, then they should be allowed to do so. I don't know if IRC allows for that.
(Shaul) would the door be just wide open so that anyone can just walk in?
(Shaul) Jurian says there's many ways to control a meeting.
(Jurian) Ron: it does, channel mode +m , moderated, need @ or + to talk, which he didn't have
(Brent) Jurian set mode so he couldn't talk
(Nancy) I think that the rule on open meetings is so that no smoke filled room decisions are made. We post the full log! We are NOT hidden.
(Shaul) That's right. The log is posted and it's not hidden.
(Jurian) if we are not hidden, why was he forced to leave?
(Shaul) This is not the same as being present at the actual meeting!
(Shaul) Do we have to let a person into a closed room where an official meeting is being held?
(Shaul) That's the question, people!
(Shaul) If we were meeting like a normal Corporation, in a Board Room and stuff,
(Shaul) the door would be closed.
(Brent) All members are allowed to observe meetings, non-members should be invited ahead of time.
(Shaul) Joe Shmoe could not just walk in off the street - or am I wrong?
(Brent) Your right, Shaul
(Shaul) that's right, Brent, something of the sort. And so that all the
(Michel) Non-Inc. members should not be able to participate unannounced I think in a meeting. Like Jurian says, there are enough options with irc to make it so that people can attend but not insert their own talk into the meeting's chat
(Ron) It is my understanding that the public must be able to attend and view in real time the Board Meeting of any Non-Profit. They do NOT have the right to talk.
(Shaul) I think only board members should be allowed to say anything at boqard meetings!
(Shaul) otherwise chaos ensues.
(Brent) True, Shaul
(Jurian) Ron: which is EXACTLY as it was, the channel was moderated, only @ and + can talk, he COULD NOT
(Michel) When I came in some minutes ago I said Hello, but I could not send to the channel, a very easy way of handling the chat
(Gerard) Jurian made the channel moderated so only people with a @ before their name or a + can talk then, those withouth can't
(Shaul) Therefore, I'm sorry Michel, but we can't talk to you now
(Shaul) is that difficult to understand?
(Michel) Shaul, who mentioned this as being a difficulty? Not me, anybody else?
(Ron) Jurian, that's the policy I think we should adopt. During a meeting simply ignore those who aren't invited by the board to speak.
(Shaul) again, I don't want to be a hard-ass or something.
(Shaul) but we need order, for pete's sake.
(Shaul) we have a large membership, each with an opinion
(Gerard) Michel is still a member of the Inc, he is not a boardmember .. is that a problem ?
(Michel) Hold it Shaul, you are jumping in leaps instead of walking
(Shaul) Yes, it is a problem, Gerard!
(Brent) Shaul, why don't you set up some guidelines to present later, we have to move on....
(Michel) I never said there is a problem
(Nancy) Perhaps we need to post on tt-inc., the exact wording of the IRS rules! I think I can dig them up somewhere, as I have the 501(c) coded in electronic text, saved this.
(Michel) Shaul made that
(Jurian) ok so problem solved
(Jurian) grr, who removed +m ? :)
(Shaul) I'm sorry, folks.
(Jurian) sorry Michel, just proving my point.. :)
(Shaul) Order has to be maintained...
(Shaul) Michel is not a Board member.
(Shaul) we can't have every member of the Inc offering opinions at Board meetings!
(Shaul) I'm sorry, Michel, that's how it is.
(Brent) Can we wrap this up now, folks? one more item, I think.
(Shaul) I move to adjourn
(Brent) Wait a minute....
(Roger) This is true Shaul, but often we have had non-directors sit in and offer reports, commentary on a particular subject.
(Shaul) Roger- only if it's invited
(Shaul) I don't recall asking Michel for an opinion!
(Nancy) Shaul, I agree that a non-board member should NOT be allowed to speak, unless they have business on the Agenda and are addressed by the Pres to speak, etc.
(Shaul) this kind of thing should not happen!
(Brent) Yes, this is the protocol
(Shaul) I'll put out some guidelines immediately!
(Jurian) so leave the channel mode +m during meetings, so only @ and + can talk
(Shaul) it's a shame.
(Nancy) There is a rule that the Agenda must be frozen 3 days ahead of the meeting, so members wishing to speak should let this be know to the Pres, then have an opportunity, scheduled, to speak!
(Shaul) that's an excellent rule, Nancy. Where is it written?
(Nancy) I'll find it and post on tt-inc.
(Shaul) so, what about the adjournment, Chairman?
(Brent) Do we need to vote on Shaul being the official recruiter? Or was that covered in Item 7.
(Shaul) ah, right... Well, you have my agreement, if that's necessary...
(Shaul) I already stated it in so many words on the mail list
(Shaul) I'm pretty sure that's all covered under item 7 unless someone has something else to say.
(Shaul) don't hold any punches now!
(Shaul) we need to hear everything before such a decision is made, if there's objections,
(Shaul) or anything else.
(Nancy) Brent, I don't think we voted on this, but it could be a next month Agenda item. Before the Jan elections!
(Brent) OK....we have a motion to adjourn....2nd?
(Roger) I second
(Nancy) He is INFORMALLY the recruiter, as many jobs are done informally before becoming a staff title.
(Shaul) I agree
(Brent) OK, meeting adjourned....and great work people! .